Wise men is a vague translation of “Magi,” who were the priestly class of the Persian Zoroastrians.
If the bible is real and dealt with real people, what were the 3 wise man wise of? Like subjects and stuff for their time?
Submitted 1 day ago by Patnou@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Comments
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.world 1 day ago
You could have told me you were describing a new class in DnD and I would have believed you without a second thought
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Weird linguistic coincidences like that seem less weird when you remember that at its core English is just a strange dialect of German that’s been mugging other languages for loose vocabulary for a thousand years or so.
Patnou@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Not trying to act a dick. But generally curious that could you break down all that like I am five. I know zoroastrians are a religion. Only reason I know that is because I convinced my school to let me go to Iran while the rest went to Europe. I think the only reason they did it was because it was massively cheaper. But the weird part it was about August 2001 and part of the Republic Guard told me that I need to get the fuck out of the middle east. I let it go figuring yea whatever. Then they came to my hotel room and said pack up your leaving NOW. Next thing I know is I was on a flight to Germany. Then well you know what happened in a month.
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Sure, Zoroastrianism, the original state religion of Persia, now Iran before the Arabic conquest. Its still practiced by a small minority in Iran, as well as parts of India, Afghanistan and other places in the region. Famously Freddy Mercury was Zoroastrian. It’s a belief system closely related Vedic Hinduism and more distantly related to the polytheistic traditions of ancient Europe (Slavic polytheism, Norse/Germanic Polytheism, etc.). It was the official belief system of King Cyrus the Great, who has been spoken of in recent years due to his conquest of Babylon being the thing that freed the Jews and he was the king who rebuilt the temple in Jerusalem. That’s prompted comparisons among some with Trump, being the goyim defender of the Jewish state. It was on his orders that the surviving texts of the Jewish Torah, Nevi’im, and Ketuvim (what a Christian would call the Old Testament) were compiled into something recognizable today.
Zoroastrianism believes in a true Creator god (Ahura Mazda, yes like the car, long story) and a Lord of Chaos (Ahreman), with the creator slowly releasing the world he created from the clutches of the jealous lord of chaos who tried to take it. All of the other “gods” (Amesha Spenta) are “Faces” of Ahura Mazda. Some have speculated Zoroastrian influence may have been the thing that finally pushed second temple Judaism to abandon the last vestiges of pre-Babylonian polytheism, though there were trends among the last remaining Jewish communities in that direction prior to the conquest of Babylon. Some have also speculated that some of the gaps in the Jewish tradition were filled in by Zoroastrian beliefs when reconstructing Jewish tradition, and that may be one of the distinct “Voices” in the modern Torah (see JEDP Theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis). Interestingly enough concepts like heaven, hell, judgement day, and a messiah at the end of the world may also originate in Zoroastrianism.
The Magi (plural), or Magus (singular), is the Persian word for a Zoroastrian priest and loosely translates as “Wise Man” in English. The words in English like Magic, Mage, Magician, etc. is actually derived from it because their legendary supernatural powers were famous across the ancient world. The Magi were also well known for the practice of Astrology in ancient times and much of modern astrological practice is adapted from Zoroastrian tradition.
klugerama@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Yes, they would have been like philosophers, scientists, or academics.
Also, trivia: the Bible never says there were 3. It just says wise men came (unspecified number) and brought 3 gifts.
Nemo@slrpnk.net 1 day ago
“This is from all of us.”
Kolanaki@pawb.social 1 day ago
Maiq@piefed.zip 1 day ago
"Frank sent this." relevant bit is in there, just cant cut this up.
betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Not giving good gifts to babies, apparently.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 1 day ago
One of them gave him gold. That’s a perfect gift for anyone, at any point in time.
betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 1 day ago
If he was really financially wise, he wouldn’t be giving away gold.
Battle_Masker@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
they were wise enough to not make the faux pas of saying the gifts were the parents
Battle_Masker@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
they were wise enough to not make the faux pas of saying the gifts were the parents
jrTug_2T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
Little known fact: turns out, they were actually the three Wyze men, and were scheduled to give the new parents a quote on a smart home security system.
vrek@programming.dev 1 day ago
I thought it was three waze men and they were trying to give directions to Mary and Joseph
celeste@kbin.earth 1 day ago
Probably reading stars
username_1@discuss.tchncs.de 1 day ago
Sausages, cucumbers and navigation.
resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 1 day ago
Probably astrology since it’s a myth based on the three stars in Orion’s Belt which “follow” Sirius, the brightest star. In many places, Sirius dips below the horizon in late winter and reappears in the new year.
Right around Epiphany.
ElcaineVolta@kbin.melroy.org 1 day ago
well, it isn't, and it wasn't; so you're good!
Infrapink@thebrainbin.org 12 hours ago
Real answer: the term used in the original Greek is μάγοι, which in Roman letters would be represented as mágoi. This appears to derive from the Persian magush and ultimately from the Avestan magâunô, terms for a priest or cleric, though the Persian word is poorly attested in surviving Iranian sources.
I any case, they are also described as coming "from the east", which in Roman-occupied Judah would have meant Iran. Matthew doesn't spell this out, but the implication is that the Wise Men were Zoroastrian priests who, as other commentators have noted, would have been knowledgeable of astronomy. It should be noted that Matthew doesn't strictly refer to them as "wise men", instead using a technical term for Zoroastrian clergy; "wise men" is a later translation choice which gets across some of the meaning to a reader to whom magush would be meaningless jargon.
In any case, the appearance of the magi seems to be an attempt to equate Christ with the Saoshyant and thus bolster the argument that he was tge prophesied Messiah. Zoroastrian tradition prophesies that at some point a virgin will get pregnant by sperm Zarathustra left in a pool somewhere and give birth to a son, the Saoshyant. After Iran conquered Chaldaea, this idea of a saviour figure born from a virgin filtered through to the captive Jews at a time when both Judaism and Zoroastrianism were shifting toward monotheism.
So when Jesus' sect proclaimed Jesus as Messiah, having magi make the same proclamation when he was a baby reïnforces the Christian claim