Is there anything like a Beholder monster before 1975?

Submitted ⁨⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Mothra@mander.xyz⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

According to Wikipedia, the Beholder is a Dungeons and Dragons original creation and it is copyrighted. Its first appearance was in 1975.

In case you are not familiar with these, a beholder is basically a floating eye with tentacles that also have eyes, often able to shoot rays off the eyes. You have probably seen some similar creature type in a myriad other media such as videogames, tv shows and whatnot.

Now I’m really surprised something like this only surfaced in the 70s. Is there anything similar in any type of media or culture prior to the 70’s? The only thing that pops to mind is the ancient biblical angels with abstract forms and many eyes, but I’m hoping someone here can show me more and better examples.

Or not. I don’t know.

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justdaveisfine@piefed.social ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I thought they were based on gorgons, specifically gorgoneion which is the image of just the head of a gorgon.

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- cecilkorik@piefed.ca ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Yeah it’s pretty clearly Medusa/Gorgon-inspired. Obviously, it has its own unique twist, as it should, and probably includes aspects from some other references as well (Scylla, Cyclops, and the Hydra from classical mythology, and various Lovecraftian and Science-fiction tentacle/blob monsters that were common throughout the 60s and 70s) but the basic imagery and functionality is too similar to a gorgon to ignore that there’s likely some connection, whether conscious and intentional or not.
  
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- Mothra@mander.xyz ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Nice connection there
  
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TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

The beholder (eye tyrant, sphere of many eyes) is most frequently found underground, although it infrequently will lair in desolate wildernesses. The globular body of this monster is supported by levitation, and it floats slowly about as it wills. Atop the sphere are 10 eyestalks, while in its central area are a great eleventh eye and a large mouth filled with pointed teeth. The body is protected by a hard chitinous covering. The creature’s eyestalks and eyes are also protected, although less well (thus the armor classes of 2 and 7 respectively). Because of its particular nature the beholder is able to withstand the loss of its eyestalks, these members are not computed as part of its hit point damage potential, and lost eyestalkswill eventually grow back (1 week per lost member). The body of the monster can withstand two-thirds of its total damage potential, while the great central eye can withstand one-third this total, i.e. a beholder with 45 hit points con withstand 30 hit points of damage to its body before being killed; the eleventh eye can withstand 15 points before ceasing to function. Eyestalks take from 8 to 12 hit points each before being lost. The body of a beholder represents75%of potential hit area, the central eye and the eyestalks 10% each, and the 10 small eyes 5%. Eyes: The various eyes of a beholder each have a different function. Typically only the central eye, plus 1-4 of those on stalks are able to function considering that the attack is coming from an arc 90’ before the monster. If attacks come from 180" double the number of eyestalks able to function, and for 270" or 360" triple or quadruple the number. Attacks from above enable all 10 eyestalks to function, but the central eye cannot.

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- Mothra@mander.xyz ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  Advanced D&D Monster Manual 1977
  
  added for context not to be argumentative … it came out in '75 … my copy of the MM is from 1977
  
  Yes, I think I mentioned it came out in the '75? According to Wikipedia at least, although it is unclear whether it was publicly released that year. The material there cited is also from the '77.
  
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- yakko@feddit.uk ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  not to be argumentative
  
  Genuinely makes me happy to see friendly touches like this.
  
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radix@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I wonder if they could have been inspired by the writings (and some illustrations) of HP Lovecraft? I’m no lore expert there, but a Beholder wouldn’t be out of place by the side of some of the others.

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- PositiveNoise@piefed.social ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Yeah. Lovecraft was one of the popular authors the creators of D&D had read. Sci-fi, fantasy, horror etc genres did not have tons of superstars, so a lot of people were reading the same books/authors. It’s similar to how everyone had seen movies like Jason and the Argonauts.
  
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Tramort@programming.dev ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Copyright only protects a specific artistic expression, not a concept.

So you can use the concept of a giant floating eye with ten eye tentacles that shoot lasers. Full stop.

But you can’t call it a beholder (due to trademark, not copyright), and you can’t use their artwork of the concept.

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- Mothra@mander.xyz ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  My question was “where were the beholder -like creatures in the media before 1975?”
  
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db2@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I wonder if they had to pay to use something similar in Big Trouble in Little China.

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- Mothra@mander.xyz ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  iirc Wikipedia doesn’t mention Big Trouble in Little China as copyright infringement, but it mentions that example as something similar, whereas other media does get mentioned as infringing copyright.
  
  Apparently the only one who got to use a beholder as such and not get a lawsuit was Pixar, who managed to get permission from WotC. I guess this means both have similarly strong lawyers
  
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  - scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Did Wikipedia mention that what it sees, Lo Pan knows?
    
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  - bryndos@fedia.io ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    'Garth Marenghi's Darkplace' (TV, 2000s) also had something similar in the "skipper the eyechild" episode. Nsfw if anyone searches it. I'd be quite surprised if they paid royalties for that.
    
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