How are people not hating (and even liking) Star Trek Enterprise?

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Submitted ⁨⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Solumbran@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨startrek@startrek.website⁩

I’m currently reaching season 3. Until now, the show has been nothing more than:

Over sexualized, useless scenes (sometimes in weird semi-assault scenes)
Horrible characters who are irrational, stupid, racist, incoherent and immoral (Reed apart, the guy is a full on nazi)
References to older shows, but without ever being coherent with them
Horrible morals, basically defending racism, sexism, slavery, etc
Empty episodes filled with either 10 minutes fighting scenes, sex scenes or “funny” scenes that have no impact

I’m probably forgetting a few points but that’s the core of it. I am confused as to why people even tolerate this show.

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RotaryKeyboard@lemmy.ninja ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m making my way through the special features and commentaries in the Blu Ray edition. It amazes me that so much of the bonus content is apologizing for/explaining the bad quality of the show. I’ve never seen anything like it, really.

I have watched this series several times. There was one way to watch it that makes it pretty good: follow the skippables list. It tells you which episodes to omit and which to watch to get the full story. It’s pretty incredible what it does to the experience of binging the show. Suddenly it feels Voyager-like.

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Especially_the_lies@startrek.website ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
“What’s with people liking the thing I don’t like?”

Seriously, people. Can we not gatekeep Star Trek? Does Enterprise have its problems? Absolutely, but so does literally every other Trek show. Every series has its own ups and downs, and while Enterprise might have issues, it has redeeming qualities, too. No one is going to make you like Enterprise, but don’t be critical of other people because they like it.

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- Solumbran@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I’m sorry but scenes basically saying “slavery is fine” is not a matter of liking. Most of my points are not about liking or disliking episodes, but about factual problems that the show has, and while some can not be a problem for some people, most of them are not so easily dismissed.
  
  And I was not saying that I don’t want people to like it, I was saying that I don’t understand why
  
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  - Stamets@startrek.website ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    I’m sorry but scenes basically saying “slavery is fine” is not a matter of liking.
    
    Mind citing the scene? Because I do not recall ANY such scene in Enterprise.
    
    Most of my points are not about liking or disliking episodes, but about factual problems that the show has
    
    No, most of your points ARE about liking or disliking it. You listed two objective complaints. Those being the hyper sexualization and the filler episodes. Everything else is personal opinion or misunderstandings.
    
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  - flamingmongoose@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    You mean Cogenitor? Yeah that wasn’t great
    
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Stamets@startrek.website ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Every Trek show had over-sexualized characters and useless scenes, but in the early 2000s ‘barriers’ were being pushed. Sluttier and sluttier things were not just allowed on screen but actively encouraged. Trek got caught up in this trying to keep it’s slumping relevance in the ratings. Voyager had Seven who was effectively painted into her costume. To one-up that, Enterprise had them all get naked repeatedly for very an extremely tepid lore reason with the ‘Decontamination Showers’.

Racism, irrationality, stupidity, immorality, all of these things are ‘phased out’ of humanity by TNG. A lot of humanity is able to refocus itself on the betterment of humanity instead of the procurement of goods. However, we had to start from something. Earth had just survived the Eugenics Wars and WW3. The Earth was a disaster zone. Enterprise takes place not long after that period of time. People are still going to be relatively untrustworthy, racist, and held back. Enterprise is a story about the growth of humanity, not just the growth of Starfleet/UFP/Individual Characters. All of these characters are pretty deeply flawed to be able to tell those stories of growth.

I’m not super sure what you been by the coherence of references to other shows. TOS takes place 100ish years after Enterprise. A lot of what they’re going to be doing in TOS is built off of the backs of Archer and his crew. It makes sense there are going to be some ‘back-references’ in a prequel.

You say that there are empty episodes like there aren’t a shit ton of empty episodes in other Trek shows too. Not every episode is going to be a banger. Enterprise is by far the least well produced of the ‘ClassicTrek’ but I never found there to be an extreme problem with filler episodes.

Nostalgia will play a part. A fair amount of people had Enterprise as their introduction into the Trek universe. A very good friend of mine did. He watches it now and will openly say that other shows are more well made but he still loves it and prefers it personally.

Tastes just differ. I thoroughly enjoy Discovery and don’t share most of the same complaints that people have. That’s okay just like people not liking it (provided the reasons are sane and not “TOO WOKE”) is completely okay too. People are allowed to have different opinions. Just because someone likes Enterprise doesn’t mean that you have to. You also won’t necessarily understand it.

You seem to be really underestimating the amount of people who hate Enterprise. I’ve seen far more people voice issues with the show than I have seen people who say they like it. I’ll be honest and say I don’t personally enjoy the show either but considering my own controversial opinions I don’t tend to give people shit for it.
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- wjmalik@noc.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @Stamets @Solumbran@lemmy.worldat least they nixed the plot point in Carbon Creek where T'Pol takes a job as a stripper for cash.
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  - Stamets@startrek.website ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I wouldn’t be okay with it but honestly I wouldn’t have been surprised if they did do that in the show. T’Pol was already pretty heavily sexualized throughout the show. It would not even remotely surprise me if they forced her to be a stripper for no damn reason. Like I said i’m not a big fan of Enterprise myself. I like parts of it but the very heavy handed sexualization does put me off. Especially as a gay guy. I get nothing from those scenes other than gross feelings and the imagery of Jolene Blalock being in an uncomfortable situation in front of a bunch of people. Constantly.
    
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- Endorkend@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Name me SEVEN things that were sexy and sexualized in Star Trek Voyager?
  
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  - Stamets@startrek.website ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Kess’ outfits
    
    Tuvok’s logic
    
    Kim’s devotion
    
    Chakotay’s totally 100% bonafide realistic Native American background
    
    Paris’ attitude
    
    Neelix’s Leola Root soup
    
    The Doctor
    
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rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I just fast-forward through all that parts that aren’t Captain Quantum Leap complaining that cheese makes his dog fart or feeding cheese to his dog anyway.

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darth_helmet@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It has its moments. Season 3 and 4 are better than the first two. It takes a while for any show to hit the tonal balance that makes a good trek. One thing that I think the show does well is fill in the gap between “humanity is a bunch of selfish messy bitches who would prefer to annihilate each other rather than get it together,” and the humanity we see in future series. You’re watching them become less xenophobic, more open minded and inquisitive.

Skip the finale, the episode before is a good finale.

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- TootSweet@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yeah, I think when Enterprise was new, I got disgusted and gave up on it before season 3. Maybe I ought to give it another chance for that reason.
  
  Also, yeah, the finale blows.
  
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ramchak@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I just finished a binge watching of Enterprise and by the end of the third episode I started playing a game called “Lunch and Lingerie”. Every episode has a meal scene and an underwear scene. Not many disappointed

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keefshape@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
We all do. So much so that everyone ignores it, and never speak of it. You have broken the pact.

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ValueSubtracted@startrek.website ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Reminder: constructive criticism is specific, clear, descriptive, and not framed in such a way as to shame those who like something that you don’t.

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TootSweet@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The thing I hated about Enterprise was that they tried their hardest to distance the series from the “Star Trek” brand, later realized their mistake, and then shoehorned a lot of contrived Star Trek stuff back in.

The first season, they didn’t market it as “Star Trek: Enterprise.” They just called it “Enterprise.” On purpose. Specifically to distance it from Star Trek. Maybe part of their rationalle was that it was set before “Star Trek” was “Star Trek” or something?

Also, they got rid of holodecks, but then have a contrived holodeck episode. They got rid of borg and then “oh wait there were borg in tEarth’s arctic or some shit the whole time.”

Enterprise never felt very Star Trek to me on that basis.

But then again, I haven’t watched any Enterprise since it was new on UPN. I also disliked Lower Decks when I first started watching it. I gave it another chance later and now I love it. Maybe if I gave Enterprise another chance, I’d like it. Who knows.

Honestly, I don’t remember Enterprise being ok with slavery, but again I haven’t watched it since it was new. It’s possible I just don’t remember that. I definitely remember the over sexualized stuff (not that Voyager was all that light on that, but it did seem more blatant in Enterprise.)

Actually, when it was new, I quit watching it in the middle of the series. Which is saying something given how into Voyager I was before it ended. To this day, I think Enterprise is the only official series I haven’t seen all of at least once.

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- Stamets@startrek.website ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  They got rid of borg and then “oh wait there were borg in tEarth’s arctic or some shit the whole time.”
  
  Funnily enough, that was one of my favorite episodes of Enterprise. I liked that they tied in First Contact and the temporal fuckery of Enterprise-E wasn’t pristine.
  
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