Has anyone ever come up with what a Palestinian State would look like without wiping Israel of the map? If so have both sides ever been presented the offer? If not why?

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• xmunk@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  The big problem is that while there used to be a relatively clean line aggressive (and highly illegal) Isreali settlers and those who organize them have purposefully worked to destroy any clear separation in an effort to make a two state solution impossible.

  The isreali government has had many different forms and drives since founding - this is by far the worst form where displacement and genocide is openly embraced - but even under prior more tolerant government there’s always been a militant genocidal faction of the population that have indepently worked to establish illegal settlements.

  The question of where to draw the line has been purposefully made as difficult as possible by people who are opposed to a line ever being drawn.

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  • xylogx@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    It is exactly what happened with the settlement of native american lands in the US. Settlers move into land given by treaty to the Indians, when trouble occurs the military is sent in and the Indians are inevitably ejected from their lands.

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    • BruceAlrighty@lemmy.nz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Yeah but they were barbaric and scalped babies.

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• paysrenttobirds@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  The first proposal for separate Jewish and Arab states in the territory was made by the British Peel Commission report in 1937.[3] In 1947, the United Nations General Assembly adopted a partition plan for Palestine, leading to the 1948 Palestine war.[4][5] As a result, Israel was established on the area the UN had proposed for the Jewish state, as well as almost 60% of the area proposed for the Arab state. Israel took control of West Jerusalem, which was meant to be part of an international zone. Jordan took control of East Jerusalem and what became known as the West Bank, annexing it the following year. The territory which became the Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt but never annexed. Since the 1967 Six-Day War, both the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and Gaza Strip have been militarily occupied by Israel, becoming known as the Palestinian territories.

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution

  Basically from the beginning until 2014, that has been the basis of every proposal.

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• deegeese@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  It’s called “right of return” and transforms Israel from a Jewish apartheid state into a pluralistic democracy, so the settler lobby would never allow it.

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• fubo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  There was the original 1947 UN plan for the partition of British Palestine, for one.

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• FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Quite inconceivable at this point than any solution exists that satisfies the apparently mutually exclusive…

  I) “right to return”. A large part of the Palestinian cause is the right to repossess their familys historic land inside modern Israel

  Ii) Israeli security. Israel already considered the 1967 borders indefensible even more so given miliary action initiated by neighbours in 1948, 56, 63, 67 and so on.

  Any two state solution is enormously fragile even if it does exist. Unimaginable that Israel wouldn’t take parts of the land saying that without it their security is untenable. Unimaginable that extremist groups within Palestine wouldn’t use it as an opportunity to build up forces and launch attacks at Israel given they’re ideologically opposed to any Jewish state, even a reduced one.

  The solution “probably” is that things have to get so terrible and the rest of the world so upset at it carrying on that some sort of secular UN guarded state is created encompassing the whole region.

  Either that or Israel’s going to divide and kill the Palestinians until 2 generations from now younger folk in the West, who don’t remember any of this, consider the whole region to be Israel. And the “Palestinians” if they’re heard from at all, are a stateless minority group, relegated to slums and living on the street.

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• Keeponstalin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  There is the Saif al-Islam Gaddafi Isratin proposal:

  The Gaddafi Isratin proposal intended to permanently resolve the Israeli–Palestinian conflict through a secular, federalist, republican one-state solution, which was first articulated by Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, the son of Muammar Gaddafi of Libya, at the Chatham House in London and later adopted by Muammar Gaddafi himself.

  Its main points are:

  • Creation of a binational Jewish-Palestinian state called the “Federal Republic of the Holy Land”;

  • Partition of the state into five administrative regions, with Jerusalem as a city-state;

  • Return of all Palestinian refugees;

  • Supervision by the United Nations of free and fair elections on the first and second occasions;

  • Removal of weapons of mass destruction from the state;

  • Recognition of the state by the Arab League.

  Similar to the Binational State Solution advocated by the Palestinian leadership and some others prior to the Nakba.

  This ongoing Settler Colonialism annexing the West Bank continues to make a Two State Solution less possible, it has already divided the West Bank into hundreds of isolated enclaves. This Apartheid State needs to end as a binational state for all Palestinians and Israelis.

  Image

  Here are resources by Historians about a One-State Solution. In many ways, it’s already a One-State, an Apartheid State, this change would be the emancipation of Palestinians to bring forth a One-State with equal rights.

  The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.

  • Avi Shlaim

  How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

  ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

  One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

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• JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  I thought when Britian originally gave Palestine to the Jews (who made it Israel), the Muslims were offered a state where they got some of the land, and the Jews got some, with each getting half of Jerusalem, but they were unable to come to an offer that both sides would agree to.

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  • BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    And then 5 neighbouring countries invaded Israel the day after the British protectorate ended because they weren’t happy with the UN defined borders.

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    • JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Tbf they were all Muslim countries, they weren’t exactly coming from an impartial perspective.

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    • BonerMan@ani.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      No they just wanted to murder Jews and justified it with that…

      Gladly they all got their asses handed to them.

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    • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      After the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of Palestinian cities

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      Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism

      >Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers. > The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat. > An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

      • Page 8, The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948

      Settlements and Occupation

      Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades. This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice. - The Transfer Committee, and the JNF Ethnic Cleansing, which led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate before the Nakba The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948: - Plan Dalet - Declassified Massacres of 1948 - Details of Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948) . Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967: - Haaretz, Forward While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements - (Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ). The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians. > The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal. - m.btselem.org/settler_violence

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• edgemaster72@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  /s (putting this up front just in case)

  Clearly at this point the only answer is a 0 state solution. Everyone shit in the pool so we’re shutting it down, everyone out.

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• BonerMan@ani.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Israel tried to leave them mostly alone and what is now is the result, there will no longer be a “Palestine” this time and maybe it will finally bring some peace. Maybe the Iranian government, wich is behind 9/10 terrorist organizations in middle east and some in Africa and Asia will be finally put in its place as well.

  The terrorists want to kill all Jews and not just Israel, Israel is just the closest target and the only Jewish majority state.

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  • neatchee@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    You should watch this Israeli academic explaining about those terrorists! youtu.be/2CTpVNKw7UM?si=-kWXAxceWpj9X2hP

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    • BonerMan@ani.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Middle east eye is among the least credible sources imaginable.

      www.arabnews.com/node/1519151 you should background check “sources”

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