“moderates”
Comment on Wreck the economy because it only works for the billionaire class.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Billionaires aren’t the ones that starve when the economy implodes.
This kind of rhetoric is what makes moderates ambivalent about unions. Sure we support your goals but the side-effects of that cure are ten times worse than the disease itself.
Glimpythegoblin@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yes, “moderates”.
Those of us who realize the building we all live in is old, has holes in the windows and floors, and never had an elevator installed, but would still prefer to renovate it than burn it down. Yes, we know some people are getting wet, or fell through the floor, and a few can’t even get to their rooms, but the majority of us are warm, well-fed, and mildly entertained. We definitely need to get the holes patched and we should work on some sort of lift, but burning the place down is not going to help those who are missing out now and will harm everyone else in the process.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You know that they tear down dilapidated buildings with good reason, right? The foundation is crumbling, the floor won’t support weight and the roof is more leak than barrier.
Trying to apply repairs to a crumbling and unsafe building is actually a great analogy for how your “moderate” bullshit is keeping most of society in a death spiral. Nice self-own.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Even if we are approaching a point where a tear down would be more cost effective, we are not at a point where we can unite enough to rebuild anything from the rubble.
Maybe pushing it any farther is risking a collapse, but I rather like being one united nation sitting at the top of lists for economic and military power, rather than 3 or 4 smaller nations barely in the top 10.
sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 9 months ago
Bruh, in your analogy where are you getting the money and materials to patch up the building? It’s being hoarded by the guy that owns a giant state of the art mansion up the street that needs 0 repairs.
And that mansion has TWO elevators.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Fair question.
In my hastily put together analogy, the rich guy would live up on the top floor which he converted to a pent house, probably with a helicopter pad. That guy like in real life is going to try to squeeze the money out of the guys a few floors down from himself. If it actually comes to a building collapse or something he probably tries to escape to another building.
Really though, this analogy is probably stretched to its limit.
Glimpythegoblin@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Or you could build a new and better building instead of patching up poor construction.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Sure, if you can get most of the residents to agree on what kind of building they want the new one to be, you might even make it happen fairly smoothly.
As is, we have at least a half a dozen groups who each want different designs and the two largest groups aren’t even sure they want to live in the same building anymore. Those two groups have already started drawing lines down the middle of the current building and are demanding everyone pick a side. To make matters worse the other groups don’t agree with each other enough to even band together for their own defense. In the end, we will be lucky if we get a couple small condos where once a sky-rise stood.
DessertStorms@kbin.social 9 months ago
There is no reforming capitalism, and by pretending there is (or that "the alternative" which you are clearly not even able to articulate) you are helping to maintain the status quo, at best.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/14/liberalism-and-fascism-partners-in-crime/
https://libcom.org/article/capitalist-democracy-illusion-choice
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This kind of rhetoric is what makes moderates ambivalent about unions
No. That would be the constant drone of pro-establishment and thus pro-billionaire propaganda from the billionaire-owned corporations that dominate the media landscape.
Also, here’s a song about moderates for you.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Thank you for the link from a billionaire-owned corporation. I would consider listening to it, but I don’t use google products anymore than necessary. Also, youtube transcript doesn’t seem to work on it.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Here’s an alternative link to the same video: yewtu.be/watch?v=3cdqQ2BdgOA
shuzuko@midwest.social 9 months ago
I like good folk music but I’m not allowed to wear headphones at work, so I appreciate the lyrics link! Looking forward to listening to the song later, seems like a good one.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Phil Ochs was too good for this world.
Saltblue@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Ohh look a centrist what a disgusting piece of shit
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Very constructive. I am sure you convince a lot of people of the rightness of your opinions with your eloquent speeches.
Saltblue@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’m not trying to convince you of anything dipshit, I know your type, you will vote for whoever will keep your privileges, “don’t rock the boat” “keep the status quo”, that’s is what you really think, so why the facade? hypocrite
At least fuckin fascist will tell me that they want to make me a slave or put me in gas Chambers, communists are honest about wanting to meat grind the rich, even Anarcho-capitalists accept they want to fuck kids.
But you, you are the silent supporter of the exploitation of the people, keeping silent because you are too coward to admit you are a piece of shit.
And you know why I know that? Ask a person who works 2 or more jobs to survive, believe me they will no tell you they are “centrist” or “moderate”.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Since you clearly missed it that was sarcasm. You are obviously doing nothing but spewing self-righteous textual diarrhea.
I am truly sorry for you that you don’t realize many self-proclaimed moderates and centrist could be your natural allies. Not me of course, I would never intentionally associate myself with a zealot that thinks anyone who doesn’t share his exact opinion is his true and natural enemy. It is a shame that you are probably an atheist, you would fit right into a fundamentalist sect.
gibmiser@lemmy.world 9 months ago
War is never worth it for the ones who die fighting it. That is why we honor them for their sacrifices.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
As long as they chose to join the fight sure, but when you start dropping bombs in civilian areas it becomes harder and harder to justify that war.
burntbutterbiscuits@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
People like you ARE the disease
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Thank you for your well-thought-out and oh so eloquent opinion.
theuberwalrus@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You’re the one welcoming your own oppression.
burntbutterbiscuits@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
No problem. A scalpel is not always the correct tool
Shadywack@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The problem is that the billionaires never starve. They just end up with slightly less fathomless oceans of cash while we can afford rent or a mortgage.
If this doesn’t work, it’s time for some guillotines, then nobody has to starve at all.
Cryophilia@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Lol a ton of people literally starved during the Reign of Terror
You keyboard warriors are so annoying
Shadywack@lemmy.world 9 months ago
There was a lot of the same thing back in the Roman Empire. The reason many more emperors weren’t gutted like a fish was due to their Praetorian Guard. If we had a solid way to get past the tear gas and national guard en masse, there’d be much less rhetoric and a lot more action. Hopefully we co-opt them, much like what happened back then. The Praetorians killed quite a few shitty emperors, hopefully we get after the oligarchs in the same manner.
Cryophilia@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Jesus you fucking kids
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
then nobody has to starve at all.
Ah yes, more cannibalism! How long exactly do you think 999 people can survive off of eating one?
GreenMario@lemm.ee 9 months ago
I don’t know. Let’s find out 😈
tryptaminev@feddit.de 9 months ago
Thanks to people who want to retain the status quo that economic crisis are handled by fucking the poor and bailing out the rich. That is not a law of nature btw. It is a choice made by both large american parties every time.
The US could also increases taxes, seize assets from rich people and imprison tax evaders. With that money they could invest in infrastructure, schools, hospitals, renewable energies… That would bring the economy back on track and also help everyone to prosper.
What you describe is the result of deliberate disaster capitalism, where crisis are embraced as an opportunity to steal from the poor and give to the rich.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
seize assets from rich people
I agree with everything you said except this bit. The 4th Amendment is supposed (glares at imminent domain) to protect us from a tyrannical government seizing our assets just because they want them.
Cryophilia@lemmy.world 9 months ago
both large american parties
Whoa whoa whoa let’s not “both sides” this shit. There is one party doing this, and another party sometimes having to make concessions to them.
The US could also increases taxes, seize assets from rich people and imprison tax evaders. With that money they could invest in infrastructure, schools, hospitals, renewable energies…
Guess which party is working on all of this right now (minus the higher taxes part)?
Hint: the answer is not “neither”
tryptaminev@feddit.de 9 months ago
the US democrats are far right conservatives by most countries standards. You saw how they fiercly opposed the idea of a somewhat lefty candidacy and instead brought on Clinton, who is a neoliberal economist and war hawk and Biden who is also a neoliberal economist and has a strongly racist history.
Cryophilia@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Who gives a fuck, they’re not regressive fascists. “Both sides” is bullshit propaganda.
vivavideri@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Billionaires? Starve?
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
Poor aren’t either, since they got some nice rich to cook on a spit roast.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yes, haha very funny, let’s all become cannibals of the rich. I’m sure that everyone will get a mouthful of that yummy long pig. What are the poor going to eat after that?
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yeah, it’s not like food grows on trees!
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Is it fair to assume you have those trees growing outside your house?
Personally, I have a flock of chickens running around the yard, but only one sad little plum tree that has a couple years yet before I will have enough extras for neighbors or canning. Thinking about putting some potatoes in the ground in the spring though.
SmoothIsFast@citizensgaming.com 9 months ago
What are the poor going to eat after that?
The same food they are forced to slave away to produce. Are you fucking stupid? Poor people are literally the foundation of your society not some executive flying around to talk to clients. Literally fuck off. IT has access to security controls in an org. Accountants can access funds if they need as they have the rights. Billionaires add nothing of value to this society nor to its functioning. The driver who delivers your produce, the farmer who produces it, the factory worker who packages it, the restaurant employees who cook and serve you, the gas station clerk who turns your pump on and off, the grocery store workers, the municipality workers managing waste water and electrical infrastructure, all the jobs foundational to a society are not done from billionaires and seeing the rich gone tomorrow would not change that instead it would release a burden and allow progress. Honestly it takes just a miniscule of common sense to understand this, which shows how disconnected and stupid the billionaire class and those who defend it are.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Please stop arguing against your own fantasies of what I might think and actually comment on what I said. Doing the former makes for nice campaign speeches, but we aren’t politicians.
Billionaires aren’t the ones that starve when the economy implodes.
Nowhere here did I say billionaires are a good necessary parts of society and we should support them. Crashing the economy will cause mass starvation, but not by those who have the resources and foresight to prepare for turbulent times.
Poor people are literally the foundation of your society
Agreed, but those poor people depend on having a useful currency to trade for tools to make more food. If you crash the economy the little piece of paper we trade around right now will become worthless and we will be back to bartering until someone prints new paper or mints a new specie to use.
The guy making the tools can’t do anything with 100,000 heads of lettuce, he needs something he can pay metallurgists with, who in-turn need something to pay the miners with. That lettuce is going to rot before it changes hands enough times to get into someone’s belly.
yogurt@lemmy.world 9 months ago
“Is there a crime here that goes beyond denunciation? No. It’s the grapes of wrath who are wrong.”
burntbutterbiscuits@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
You’re talking out of your ass.
75% of Americans support the UAW
Twentytwodividedby7@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Just because there is public support does not mean it’s right. Tanking the economy will only hurt the majority, billionaires literally won’t notice. It’s not just the UAW that’s impacted, there’s huge ripple effects. Many suppliers were barely hanging on and this will probably be a death knell. And honestly, this is what makes me fucking hate working in Financial Services for one of the big 3.
I run a department that performs forecasting that eventually influences the affordability of leasing globally and I’m responsiblefor a $25B portfolio. I work my ass off and I have a new family with a 1 year old - we were having a decent year finally after 3 bad ones, then this fucker comes along and is going to tank it.
So now my family is going to suffer because of something completely unrelated to my role and performance. He makes sound bites, but the sides are so far apart it’s ridiculous. They accuse the companies of negotiating in bad faith, yet the UAW has yet to respond to any offer with a counter. They’ve been offered 20%+ raises, cost of living adjustments, signing bonuses, elimination of tiers, more holidays off, and better profit sharing - which is a huge improvement and gets them the majority of what they are asking for, but they’ve literally thrown that in the trash. My bet is all he will accomplish is more factories moving to non-UAW locations or Mexico.
What exactly is the advantage of being American made when the workers turn out the worst quality for the highest wages and they can shut down production on a whim every few years? It’s honestly very frustrating to see this issue not being taken seriously here and there seems to be such little appreciation for the broader impacts.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You’re talking about another recession where they can scoop up assets on the cheap and weather the storm while less fortunate people die. We’re talking about dismantling the system that makes that possible.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It is a lot easier to tear down the hard work of others than to build something up yourself.
The UAW is not some benevolent non-profit out to help the poor people of America. They are an organization that represents less than .05% of Americans in one of the best paid low-skill jobs in America, and they say they are willing to try and tank the economy for the benefit of their members at the cost of everyone else.
They are in no way going to dismantle the system that has made them wealthier than their friends and neighbors. They are just holding out for a bigger package with more benefits, and are willing to play Russian Roulette with the economy to get it.
Even if all three CEOs gave up their salaries and benefits packages to benefit the UAW workers they would each only gain about $1 an hour based on my napkin math.
This Fain guy’s rhetoric is nothing more than that and it makes him and the union sound like an asshole to a neutral observer. Not that there are any neutral observers in this post.
duffman@lemmy.world 9 months ago
What does it mean to dismantle the system?
burntbutterbiscuits@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Thanks for the report CNmsNbc! Much appreciated
You’re talking out of your ass with bs anecdotes. I don’t care.
The corporate executives are tanking the economy not the workers. If you believe otherwise you’re an idiot.
SmoothIsFast@citizensgaming.com 9 months ago
The Dollar is the world reserve currency. Most billionaires wealth is directly tired to its stability. It’s why China/Russia may hate our government but they don’t try and fuck with wall street, they have their value tired to the same piggy bank. Destroying the US economy would directly impact the billionaire class and to act like it wouldn’t is such a fucking cop out.
Considering you seem to not give two shits about the others getting affected by shit outside of their control and now that we are working to get rights for everyone else you feel slighted because your fucked corporate role aided in fucking everyone else, I have no fucking sympathy for you. I hope your affected because then you might just fucking get it because you clearly fucking don’t. Go pound sand dumb ass.
They want CEOs, and the billionaires reading the benefits of their work to be striped of most their wealth and redistributed to the masses where it’s needed. They don’t want scraps and what should of been given in the first place, they want fucking change. Honestly the fact you think this is enough clearly defines how fucked your mindset is and clearly demonstrates why you need to feel the hurt from this change. Go cry to your ceo I’m sure he will toss you to side just as quickly as everyone else even though you feel so strongly you need to defend those incompetent pieces of shit.
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Most Americans would like a cost-of living increase ourselves. It is easy to support the UAW when they are going for a goal we agree with; especially when it costs us nothing.
If the UAW intentionally makes that cost another economic recession/depression, we will see how strong that support is.
burntbutterbiscuits@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
You mean when the corporate executives hurt the economy. Get your head out of your ass
goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 9 months ago
how dare the workers try to use their labor to survive, why won’t anyone think of the poor rich people who may lose some stock value
Nahvi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
No I mean when the guy in the picture says, “we’re going to wreck their economy.”
If you don’t like his phrasing then it sounds like we agree.