Comment on Cognitive Biases

collapse_already@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

• rambling_lunatic@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  In a vacuum, appealing to authority is fallacious. An idea must stand up on its own merits.

  IRL, things get fuzzy. No one has the expertise and time to derive everything from first principles and redo every experiment ever performed. Thus we sadly have to have some level of trust in people.

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  • C126@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    As long as the paper has the experiment well documented and it’s double blind, you don’t need to appeal to authority.

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    • rambling_lunatic@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Counterpoint: the replication crisis

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• GrammarPolice@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  I guess authority bias is most absurd when one tries to use it as a crutch to validate an argument.

  You should believe me simply because ‘x’ researcher said this about the topic

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  • Adalast@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I have to respectfully disagreed with your example. Ostensibly the researcher should be an authority. I think the example given in the chart is not quite right either. I think the confusion comes from the three definitions of “Authority”.

    1. the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience. “he had absolute authority over his subordinates”

    2. a person or organization having power or control in a particular, typically political or administrative, sphere. “the health authorities”

    3. the power to influence others, especially because of one’s commanding manner or one’s recognized knowledge about something.

    In your example the “Authority” is definition 3, someone with specialized knowledge of a topic that should be listened to by those who are lay on the topic.

    In the chart I think they were trying to go for 1, which is the correct source of Authority Bias, but they didn’t want to step on toes or get political. The actual example is someone who has decision authority like a police officer or politician or a boss at a workplace who says things and a listener automatically believes them regardless of the speakers actual specialized knowledge of the topic they are speaking on. A better example would be “Believing a vaccine is dangerous because a politician says it is.”

    This all feeds into a topic I have been kicking around in my head for a while that I have been contemplating attempting to write up as a book. “The Death of Expertise”. So many people have been so brainwashed that authorities in definition 3 are met with a frankly asinine amount of incredulity, but authorities in the first are trusted regardless of education or demonstrable specialized knowledge.

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    • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I’ll also have to respectfully disagree with you on this. If I’m listening to someone speak on a topic who is by your 3rd definition an authority on it, that is not a yardstick for them to claim correctness. Yes, i might probably be better off listening to them than a lay person, but it still doesn’t give them the right to claim correctness nor does it grant me the right to rehash these claims and say that i should be listened to since I’m regurgitating the words of an expert. All assertions should be backed up by verifiable sources.

      I’m interested to hear about that book though

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      • Adalast@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Fair enough argument. I do wonder who, in your opinion, is someone who can justifiably have authority on a topic if not a topic expert? Who is reasonable to be educated by?

        As for the book, at this point I have not put pen to paper as it were, but the premise is the observation that there is a concerted effort on the part of some political parties to sew so much doubt in subject experts as to render their knowledge meaningless to the general populace and how dangerous that becomes when the situation is something that has potentially dire consequences. I have seen it happening for a long time, but it really came to a head for me in 2020 when I saw entirely lay politicians and pundits undermining warnings from virologists, epidemiologists, and statististians and sewing distrust in public health organizations essentially to trade people’s lives for political points. Since then I have been seeing an ever escalating trend for people in category 1 of authority to push the populace away from category 3 on topics which really only category 3 should be talking at all. The rest of us should be shutting up and taking notes, asking questions for clarification, and learning.

        Abortion, gender identity, climate change, economics geopolitics, etc. Essentially every topic that has been politicized into a hot button issue is really somerhing that is so beyond complex that we should not be arguing with the people who have dedicated their entire adult lives, sometimes 40+ years, to studying.

        My father has the perfect microcosm anecdote from his working days. He worked for a garage door manufacturer who hired some fresh faced MBAs into middle management. They were all sitting in a meeting one day and thought they came up with an amazing idea, so they took it to the veteran engineers who had been designing garage door openers for decades, some of them essentially since the damn things were invented, and told them to make their hairbrained idea. The enginners looked over what they were given and told them that they had had the idea decades earlier and that it did not work and that materials science and engineering had not progressed to the point that it would be feasible. Did the MBAs who were trying to make waves and make a name for themselves listen? Nope, they fired all of the veteran engineers and hired in a bunch of fresh faced engineers who had never actually designed a garage door opener and told them to build their hairbrained idea. The engineers, only knowing what they had learned in school and a couple of years in other jobs got excited by this revolutionary idea and dove into it. Fast forward about 2 years, and millions in R&D, and we find the fresh faced engineers, now not so fresh, somberly telling the MBA dickheads exactly what the veteran engineers had told them initially. This, along with a few other boneheaded schemes to make earnings sheets look better for the MBAs actually ended up tanking the company and it was sold like 10 years later.

        Subject expertise matters. Respecting subject expertise matters. Being able to recognize when you are sitting atop Mount DK is one of the finest skills we could ever teach our children.

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  • RandomVideos@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    How do you validate an argument?

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• shneancy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  not all bias is made equal or always something negative. Sometimes it’s good to be biased towards the opinion of a scientist over the opinion of your aunt.

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• trolololol@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Well most people will choose a politician or actor instead of unknown Nobel prize winner. That’s how we got here.

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