Thank you for the explanation! Almost got into an argument a while back because someone was conflating the layman definition with the QM definition as proof of some kinda metaphysical effect of the human consciousness.
Comment on Don't look now
cynar@lemmy.world 2 months ago
For those confused, it’s worth noting the difference between observed as a layman concept and as a quantum mechanical one.
In QM, to observed is to couple the observer to the “system” being observed. Think of it like “observing” your neighbour, over a fence using a BB gun. When you hit flesh, you know where your neighbour is. Unfortunately, the system has now been fundamentally changed. In a classical system, you could turn down the power, until your neighbour doesn’t notice the hits. Unfortunately, QM imposes fundamental limits on your measurements (heisenburg and his uncertainty principal). In order to observe your neighbour accurately, you need to hit them hard enough that the will also feel it and react differently.
QM behaves in a similar way. Initially, the system is just a single particle, and is not very restrained. This allows it to behave in a very wave like manner. When you observe it, the system now includes the whole observation system, as this coupling propagates, more and more atoms etc get linked. The various restraints cause an effect called decoherence. The system behaves ever more like a classical physical system.
In short, a quantum mechanical “observer” is less sneaky watching, and more hosing down with a machine gun and watching the ricochets.
DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
Sure, but that still means the photons derender when nobody is watching them
Rin@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I mean, how else are you going to optimise an open world simulation this big?
where_am_i@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
That’s a pretty misleading explanation. You’re not applying any force to the system by observing it.
cynar@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Depends on how you are observing it photons impart energy and momentum. The true, detailed explanation is a lot more convoluted, it’s all wave interactions, in the complex plane. However, digesting that into something a layman can follow is difficult.
The main point I was trying to get across is that there is no such thing as an independent, external measurement. Your measurement systems minimum interaction is no longer negligible. How that is done varies, but it always changes the target and becomes part of the equations.
NewNewAccount@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Thanks! I’ve never fully grasped the concept and this really helps.
I’ve always heard it that observing was actually “measuring” and still wasn’t sure why that would impact anything but chalked it up to the quantum world being other-worldly.
Wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Honestly physicists don’t actually know what measuring is either. We don’t know when exactly the system is considered “measured” in the chain of entanglement, this is called the Measurement Problem.
Answers range from “shut up don’t think about it” to “there’s an infinite amount of universes split from each other for each quantum event!”.
cynar@lemmy.world 2 months ago
We know how it works, we just don’t yet understand what is going on under the hood.
In short, quantum effects can be very obvious with small systems. The effects generally get averaged out over larger systems. A measurement inherently entangled your small system with a much larger system diluting the effect.
The blind spot is that we don’t know what a quantum state IS. We know the maths behind it, but not the underlying physics model. It’s likely to fall out when we unify quantum mechanics with general relativity, but we’ve been chipping at that for over 70 years now, with limited success.
Theharpyeagle@lemmy.world 2 months ago
To be honest I still chalk it to to that.