it’s the irresistible urge to go in
Psychology doesn’t work like that though… and there’s some really messed up crap in real world Psychology that’s horrific enough. No need to make something up.
Comment on If you know, you know
Reygle@lemmy.world 10 months agoBut the scariest part of this story isn’t the holes, it’s the irresistible urge to go in…
dragontamer@lemmy.world 10 months ago
hi_im_FitcH@lemmy.world 10 months ago
It’s not about how psychology works, it’s the unknown pull to go in. AFAIK our physiology doesn’t turn us into weird gangly monsters if you put pressure on our neck and limbs, but you don’t seem to have a problem suspending your disbelief in that way, at least not in any way you mentioned. I think the urge to enter the holes is framed as almost supernaturally strong. Maybe it was written with a basis in the idea of intrusive thoughts, but its more like a cognitohazard that enters your mind when you see “your” hole that compels people to climb inside. I find the horror comes more from the idea that you might find a hole that you become convinced is yours and would travel all the way there just to enter. (And then the claustrophobic darkness too)
dragontamer@lemmy.world 10 months ago
If we leave the realm of “real”, then we’ve got much worse “cognitive superpowers” IMO.
Lets put this into DnD terms. The Enigma of Amigara Fault is roughly on the level of a “Suggestion” spell (level 3 in DnD). That is: you magically compel someone into thinking “X” is a good idea, and they’ll work to try to do X. It doesn’t mean that they’ll “do” X, only that they think its a good idea now.
I’m not necessarily saying higher-level spells are scarier, but there’s “Dominate Person” (ex: become a mind-slave to someone entirely). As well as body-horror like stuff (ex: Magic Jar. Your very soul is swapped out and another entity takes over your body entirely)… as well as alignment-change magic (Helm of Opposite Alignment) that can magically compel you to actively change who you are, and turn into something you never wanted to be originally. Stuff on a higher power level than just a magically-compelled Suggestion.
I mean, “Charm Person” can be a horror story if written well enough. Magically befriending people, and causing those “friends” to have harmful behaviors can be horrific. But there’s a reason why Charm Person is a level 1 spell, and “Dominate Person” is a higher level spell.
Or perhaps in Anime Terms: both Code Geass and Death Note, far more popular manga/anime, have more horrific mind-compulsion mechanisms than what I’ve seen in The Enigma of Amigara Fault.
solivine@sopuli.xyz 10 months ago
Suppose it’s magical and not scientific then
dragontamer@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Its not about magic vs science. Its about “I’ve talked to people, and have encountered real world events, that are far far worse than this story”.
Triyfer@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Consider this, then. We understand how psychology works and why this situation is complety outside of any realm of possibility. Yet it is happening anyway. Consider that there is something out there, something external, something unknown, that we aren’t even aware of yet that can have an effect on the human brain beyond the scope of our understanding or capabilities.
D&D has mindflayers that command a powerful control of the psyche. In that world, it is a logical reason for unusual or impossible behaviors. Harry Potter has the imperious curse as a logical way to accomplish something similar. These don’t work in the real world and we have no real world equivalent.
But, the things in those worlds weren’t always known about. There had to have been a period of discovery. Same with our reality. There have been many things we never knew we never knew until they were discovered. Applying logic to these situations with the knowledge of the time made it harder to understand or take seriously because we didn’t have a concept yet for what it was. Yet it was there.
The fault represents that unknown both in knowledge as well as understanding. It isn’t meant to be taken literally as “This thing can cause supernatural brain control.” Rather, it is playing on that concept of discovery of the unknown. The hole we as humans must dive into to understand the world around us. The comic doesn’t reveal the reason for it. But isn’t that the very nature of exploring the unknown? We are driven to it to fulfill a need.
Sure, it could be that there is an unknown “thing” the comic never reveals, something left to our imagination to fill in the blanks which can often be a lot scarier than anything we can come up with. But it is stirring those thoughts of curiousity to find the reason, the source. The hole is considered “my hole” not because it was made for us, but because that is our personal passion, our special interest, our allure for discovery.
dragontamer@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Rather, it is playing on that concept of discovery of the unknown
But why must we jump into our hole? Why aren’t these people driven to drop cell-phones into the hole and record what happens inside?
bh11235@infosec.pub 10 months ago
Why are people enthralled by mind flayers compelled to act, and not just post about the act on instagram? At this point you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing, because lord forbid you concede your initial take maybe wasn’t so amazing.
GunValkyrie@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Because if you read the whole story you find out that the people whose holes these were did something horrific to deserve this fate over and over again. So their compulsion stems from an external source outside of their control.
doomer@lemmy.world 10 months ago
If you find a hole hidden under geological eras, and it was made just for you and you knew it… you wouldn’t feel tempted at all to just… take a step in… a unique hole unlike any other in the world, this one welcoming you like your own shadow with its depths… and confirm that someone really did carve out your exact silhouette?
It’s certainly something I could imagine happening in a dream. Like my recurring dream of driving off of bridges.
There is a Buddhist element of reincarnation going on which might be lost on some foreign audiences, but the feeling it is trying to summon should be familiar - a strange familiarity of something that should be unknown to you, an inexplicable intuition, something that feels like it could be from a past life, a premonition, deja vu.
If none of this is relatable to you, that’s okay, but it is relatable to myself and many others. Hopefully you don’t have recurring dreams about driving off of bridges, either.
Daft_ish@lemmy.world 10 months ago
What is going on here? Do you guys not understand the holes are supernatural? They appear from seemingly nowhere and draw people in from all over the world only to find the holes match those particular people’s exact form. There may be a metaphor baked in for an exaggerated form of the call of the void but the real horror is an external force that I’d actually responsible and ultimately leads to ever increasing suffering with no way back.
doomer@lemmy.world 10 months ago
The story actually gives the background of the holes. They were dug by humans. They aren’t supernatural and didn’t appear from nowhere, they emerged from older sediment layers that were raised back to the surface again after an earthquake. The story doesn’t specifically say it, but it implicitly builds on ideas the predominant religion in Japan - syncretic Buddhism - which is common for any literature and would be recognized readily in Japanese audiences. These people committed crimes and were punished in the past, and now they have been reborn again. Like all people they are ignorant to their past lives in normal situations, but their ‘souls’ are still bound to and resonate with the same infinitely continuous karmic system.
noqturn@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Yea, it’s the fact that it seems impossible to resist. Yes, there are better ways than described to check out the holes, but it doesn’t ruin the story for me. I get those impulsive thoughts to jump off of cliffs or drive off roads so this story is the fear of following those thoughts.
demlet@lemmy.world 10 months ago
It’s a very sad story actually, which I don’t think gets discussed much. All the characters who go in seem accutely isolated and lonely. That feeling of isolation from the world, if you’ve ever felt it, well, the story resonates. The characters literally only fit in to their own little place, completely separated from the rest of the world. There’s literally no room for anyone or anything else. But what comes out of living like that in the end? Well, it’s not pretty.
It’s an examination of modern life and hyper-individualism.
doomer@lemmy.world 10 months ago
The surreal aspects beg you to drop your hyper-criticism and to look for deeper imagery. I love it. And he can do it in such a short form, while also managing to singularly capture the psychological horror as well as anyone.
Imagine present day Stephen King telling stories through a one-shot manga. The action wouldn’t even be started before he ran out of paper! Of course, King has his own masterful way of conveying horror and it works very well, too.
mosiacmango@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Those impulses are so common the French have a lyrical term for it:
The call of the void.
seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org 10 months ago
Yeah, that’s the first thing I thought of, too. It’s called l’appel du vide (“call of the void” in French).
DrQuint@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I love that Junji Ito has a bunch of stories that are metaphors for stuff like this. This one. Snail Girl being the same allegory as Metamorphosis. The tall actress being about the anxiety you feel when you know a coworker might ruin the business but everyone else seems to not care. The woman in the window and the window creeping closer is one of the ones most on the nose.
But then he also has the hot spring to hell which is literally “stupid man experiences stupid horror”. He just felt like making cheap horror that month, lol.