‘The exact same work’ is the part I have a problem with here. People with less experience are less productive in general, and trying to get teenagers to do anything useful is like herding cats.
Baku@aussie.zone 5 months ago
Here’s my controversial opinion of the day: if you do the same work in the same field with the same employer, you deserve the same rate. The fact that in a lot of industries you can be paid a 40% wage because you’re 15 is absolutely disgusting, when you perform the exact same work as somebody older. And what’s even worse is that in some industries, full wage doesn’t start until you’re 21. Why is that acceptable?
ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Baku@aussie.zone 5 months ago
I disagree. On the experience side of things, you can apply that to anybody who’s first starting work, or who’s just landed their first job in a new field. I get the other bit, but that does feel like a massive generalisation and rather disrespectful.
Perhaps a minor pay decrease can be justified - I don’t disagree that being younger you’ll probably be less productive, at least for your first year or 2 in employment. But I don’t think it’s fair to pay somebody 40% of the wage when they generate you the same amount in sales and revenue. I certainly don’t think you’d receive 60% more productivity from somebody over 21
DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone 5 months ago
I personally agree with you, but the counter argument is that would make it much harder for 15yo kids to get a job. Most employers would prefer to hire someone a bit more mature if it cost the same. So allowing a lower minimum wage for teenagers evens the playing field a bit.
Baku@aussie.zone 5 months ago
I don’t disagree with the counter argument entirely, but I do think that the almost ‘discount’ (for lack of a better word) you receive by hiring younger people is excessive. And because it’s less than half the price to hire a 15 year old vs 21 year old, that means 2 things end up happening:
Firstly the older you get the less likely you are to be hired for an entry role (which I’m sure you can argue is justified, but if you just never started working until you were 18+, you’re pretty much SOL)
Secondly once you turn 17, or 18, or 19, a lot of people get effectively fired if they aren’t part or full time. Of course, that would be illegal, so what happens is your hours just end up getting cut, or they conveniently “run out of work” for you and stop giving you shifts
DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone 5 months ago
Yep I agree it’s a problem
IDontHavePantsOn@lemm.ee 5 months ago
I have no idea about Australian labor laws but I do know adulthood is defined as 18. What I’m about to ask is honestly ignorance so don’t take it as sarcasm, so what in the fucking fuck is going on in Australia that at ages 18 to 20 is considered 40% wage in any industry? What industries will pay 100% versus 40%? Do you guys not have laws protecting ageism? Am I too tired to be on the internet? Just kidding. I know I am. See ya’ll in the morning.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
I think I’ve gotta ask, are you from the US? Because I’m Aussie, and fully agree with OP that our system is fucked up. But if you’re American, then you should be looking inwards before criticising other country’s systems. A 15yo here working fast food has a minimum wage of $12.36/hour. In contrast the US federal minimum wage is just $10.84/hour (USD$7.25) for any age.
As well, the US does have a similar-ish law. If you’re under the age of 20, you can be paid just $6.36/hour (USD$4.25) for your first 90 days of employment. That’s nearly just half as much as a 15yo here.
IDontHavePantsOn@lemm.ee 5 months ago
In what way was I criticizing Australia? I was commiserating and asking questions about the laws since I didn’t know about them.
I know Australia has a lot of dangerous wildlife, but I guess there a bunch of sensitive cunts too.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
🙄
Baku@aussie.zone 5 months ago
G’day! Adulthood is defined here as being 18 too. Once you turn 18, no age restrictions apply to you anymore. You can drink, smoke, vote, go to war, whatever you’d like.
In fast food specifically (unsure about others), the minimum wage increases 10% for every year over 15 you are, starting with 40% at 15 and reaching 90% when you’re 20. It’s an absolutely stupid and I’d definitely argue discriminatory rule.
It IS actually illegal to discriminate based on age, I don’t know why it’s legal to discriminate any adults based on age for anything, and I’m unsure whether that’s intentional or it actually is but just unenforced, but from my experience it’s pretty much only ageism if you discriminate against old people (at least, that’s how it’s enforced)
Zagorath@aussie.zone 5 months ago
Just a minor point of terminology, it doesn’t increase “10%”, it increases by 10 percentage points. The difference is quite substantial, with a 16-year-old full-time level-1 making $12.36 in reality (50% of a 21-year-old), but 10% more than the 15-year-old’s wage being $10.88.
D61@hexbear.net 5 months ago
How are the laws/regulations worded as in Australia?
“Discrimination in employment based on age” or “discrimination in pay based on age” can probably be considered two separate things. A silly distinction, but weasel words make the politics go round.
Baku@aussie.zone 5 months ago
I’ve never read the legislature so I don’t know, but I’d assume it’s a bit of both, but with specific exceptions to people under 21. There would have to be pay wise, otherwise the government would be implementing illegal laws, but I’m not sure whether anybody can be discriminated against based solely on age in terms of employment
IDontHavePantsOn@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Huh. TIL. Thanks buddy!
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
Heya Baku. I wanted to reply to you as well just to say I fully agree with this system being really fucked up. I want to add some context though, because you’re incorrect that the legal definition of adulthood is just about being 18 in Australia. Gonna chuck these in bullet points: