Comment on Okay, I'll go.😰

• FishFace@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Americans tend to assume that any instance of a white person painting their face black is horrendous because their only cultural anchor for it is their horrendously racist minstrel shows and then get confused when people in other countries don’t follow suit.

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  • VerilyFemme@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Okay, but if Zwarte Piet is just supposed to be covered in coal then why did they also give him giant red lips?

    It’s a little bit disingenuous to imply that Americans doing blackface is racist, but European blackface is innocent and traditional. It’s not like the Dutch had never seen a black person when Zwarte Piet was created…

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    • FishFace@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      As far as I understand, Zwarte Piet started out as a depiction of a black person. But it wasn’t used, like minstrel shows were, to push hateful and limiting stereotypes of black people.

      I don’t think every American doing blackface must have been racist, but I think that given the cultural context in America, doing so will justifiably cause such massive offence that it can’t really be defended.

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      • anewfox@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        yeah this still just sounds like “it’s only racist when americans do it,” because yeesh, that explanation of where it came from isn’t helping your case.

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      • VerilyFemme@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Image

        Idk about that one, chief.

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  • JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I mean, the UK had televised blackface into the 70s, so that’s not entirely accurate.

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    • FishFace@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      I don’t mean to say that all other blackface is innocent, that example being a perfect counterexample.

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      • 011011@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        It’s always done to mock and dehumanize which the first stage of all persecution.

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  • 011011@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I love when you guys try to hide your bigotry behind “culture”.

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    • rabidhamster@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Hey guys, the continent with several countries that plundered Africa for hundreds of years and invented the trans Atlantic slave trade has never had a problem with racism.

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• harrison_fnord@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Yeah we did. The helper of Santa claus called schmutzli (wich translates roughly to dirty) goes around town to beat up children. But that was back in the day.

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• PetDinosaurs@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  David Sedaris has an interesting monologue about this.

  It’s called 6 to 8 black men. Definitely worth a listen. That one is about the Dutch.

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• Widdershins@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Black Pete better known as Zwarte Piet is Dutch in origin

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  • Corn@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    But it did become a culture war issue in Germany, right?

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    • frankenswine@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      must be a culture war issue in

      Switzerland

      Sweden

      Netherlands

      Germany

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      • Corn@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        I was wrong, it was Netherlands. nationalgeographic.com/…/black-pete-christmas-zwa…

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