Comment on Nice Going Buddy
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 16 hours agoyou picked the wrong religion
There is no way that most people didn’t pick the correct religion. Even if all Christians were “correct” enough to get to heaven regardless of denomination, that still leaves 71%+ of the world who aren’t Christians, and that is best case scenario as Christians are the largest religious group by population in the world currently. And even within the Christian community, there are plenty of in-groups and out-groups that consider one another to be cultish and blasphemy. No matter what you are betting, your chances aren’t great and the majority of the world is still “wrong” and will face whatever consequences come with that fact.
Personally, I’m happy to just not believe than to force myself to conform to some oppressive dogma, dump my time and money into a church, and live with shame just to hedge my bets for what would still be bad odds anyway.
I prefer the simple answer proposed by the Death of the Discworld: everyone is getting exactly what they think is coming to them. The final justice is that of your own conscience.
So pick a religion that aligns with your personal values and you’ll be alright.
I’m not sure I’ll ever get over how arrogant and simple-minded Pascal’s Wager is. The whole premise is either Christianity or nothing; it doesn’t account for any other religion. I just find it hilarious.
zloubida@sh.itjust.works 14 hours ago
It always impresses me how Christianity = evangelicalism in the mind of most Lemmynauts. Outside evangelicalism (and even partly within evangelicalism), going to hell or heaven as nothing to do with being theologically correct or not. I mean, even the Catholic church, which is both by far the biggest one and absolutely not one of the most open ones states that with an absolute clarity.
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Catholics do not believe that non-Christians go to heaven. Best case scenario, righteous unbelievers go to purgatory. Same with unbaptised babies.
Also, I grew up going to baptist and pentecostal churches. They 1000% do not think my atheist ass is getting into heaven no matter how righteous I am, even though I got baptized for that matter. Unless I repent at the 11th hour and “accept Jesus into my heart as my savior,” anyway. There are certainly plenty denominations that are not all about preaching “hellfire for the unbeliever”, but even plenty of those so believe that is true even if they’re not boasting about it. There are some that allow for people to be saved through ignorance of Jesus (which makes missionary work kind of fucked up when you think about it that way). But even that is not the norm.
Jesus’ sacrifice saving humanity from eternal damnation is a key tenet of nearly all denominations. And most of them also say that you need to actually accept it turn your life over to him.
Source: 37 years of life in the Bible belt as both an active churchgoer and apostate.
zloubida@sh.itjust.works 14 hours ago
Purgatory is a step that leads to heaven, not a final destination. It’s a step that a lot of Catholics will have to take too, according to the catholic church so it’s not something that separates believers and non-believers.
Baptists and Pentecostalism are categories of evangelicalism. So yeah, they believe that. But they’re a minority within Christianity.
Yes.
No. Only in evangelicalism.
Rothe@piefed.social 2 hours ago
That is not true. Lots of Christian denominations believe that as well. Most of them in fact. You are just Americentric in your belief that Evangelicalism is automatically meant, when that is not really a large denomination outside of the US.
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
Well, consider me brainwashed by evangelicals then. Non-evangelicals really need to step up their PR game.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
False, not only in evangelicalism. The words of Jesus Christ disagree with you. Do you need me to quote the “Narrow Gate” to you? You should be very familiar with it if you’ve read the Bible.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
I’m old enough to remember when kids started taking their new filp phone to public school and secretly recording their teachers berating their muslim or atheist students. The recordings stopped when teachers realized any student could be recording any conversation.
I’m also coded enough that bigots test the waters with me to see what I’ll agree with. I don’t exactly trust quiet christians. They’re very polite when they assume you’re also religious and things can go quickly downhill if they find out you’re not.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
Sure they do! That’s because they’ve become more moderate over the centuries in their long decline since The Great Mortality. This allows them to continue their parasitic ways in a secular society.
However, they spent many more centuries claiming the exact opposite, because the Bible says most will burn in Hell. Repeatedly. Throughout.
zloubida@sh.itjust.works 5 hours ago
Wrong. But I had this discussion with evangelicals 1000 hundred times it’s not interesting anymore. I’ll begin by citing theologians like Aquinas (13^th^ century), you’ll answer saying “meh don’t care it’s not in the Bible” or, if you studied theology, citing the one big exception, Augustine (which still wrote that God’s mysterious grace could be greater than what he himself thought). But with that I will have proved that no, it’s not a recent evolution of Christian theology, but something the churches hold still the beginning, with exceptions.
Then I’ll cite Romans 2:12-16, Luke 12:47-48, Matthew 25:31-46 or Acts 10:34-35, and you’ll do mental gymnastics that will grant you a place in the coming Olympics to reconcile this with the idea that only Christians are saved, using texts like John 3:18. And I’ll say, yes, the Bible contradicts itself on this subject like on most others, but my position is better established and coherent with the global message of the Bible and the reason, while yours is not. And you’ll be shocked : “what? You don’t believe in biblical inerrancy? You’re not a Christian!” and I’ll answer “okay, bro”.
And we will both have lost a lot of time.
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 9 hours ago
Jesus actually uses two different words which get translated as hell: Sheol, and Hades. This makes sense, because most of the people around where he lived were Jews or Hellenists. Sinful Jews go to Sheol, where their souls are cleansed by a purifying fire and they cease to exist. Sinful Hellenists go to the bottom level of Hades, Tartarus, where they’re punished forever.
Neither of those is what Dante described.