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Comment on DLSS 5 comes with a massive 50-60% performance hit, so I hope you like lower frame rates with your dose of AI image enhancement

in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

I’ve been a fan of the most cutting edge videogame graphics since that Half Life 2 E3 demonstration in 2002. Didn’t hear anyone complaining about better graphics for less performance at that time. The ragdoll physics, the water reflections, the smart new NPC AI, got people hyped to buy the latest 256mb or 512mb GPUs that were expensive at the time. Know what I didn’t hear? “Ragdoll physics is destroying gaming. The real way would be to pay a village of animators to do keyframe animations of every possible way a character can fall over, instead they use this tool as an excuse to cut back on animators. This is an affront to devs artistic vision and a slap in the face to animators who are now out of potential work.” I didn’t see these complaints when Nvidia release DX9, DX10, or DX11, that all required the latest GPUs of the time and slowed down framerates on the “more affordable” GPUs. Except now that this has an association to AI, people are being prejudiced.

I think the only reason people are pissed at this fancy new graphics technology, which once upon a time would have us excited, is because the economy is so shit and nobody can afford the GPUs anymore (thanks Trumps economy.) That and the association of AI not being used on our general QoL but at our expense so that a few people can make a buck. You’d have to be a very special moron to say “AI is the reason the economy is bad” and say all this is the fault of AI. It seems that everybody is still looking past the dominant religion of “capitalism” to blame our current problems on. AI implies fancy new tech that everyone could have access to. Capitalism limits that access, and then weaponizes it against us. And yet the current bandwagon is the “AI Hate Train” meanwhile turning a blind eye to Trumps economy and capitalism. Makes sense tho considering most gamers are pro-Trump, right-leaning, economically illiterate incels.

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AFallingAnvil@lemmy.ca ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
This is either excellent bait or really missing the point. You can hate two things. Fuck trump, but also fuck AI and everything it represents.

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- in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  What does it represent to you? Once upon a time the idea of robots or machinery doing all our work for us, it was a dream. Only under capitalism is that a bad thing, because then people won’t be forced to work for unedible money. AI could be a great thing. Under capitalism though, it represents something potentially terrible.
  
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  - Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    You whole argument seems to be “we didnt think it was bad in the past, so its not bad in the present and wont be in the future”
    
    Its such a weak point of view. When we learn something is bad for us we should take steps to stop it. Regardless of whether or not we once thought it would be the best thing ever.
    
    We grow. Priorities change. Fancy graphics got fancy enough that people stopped caring. Games got less fun so people took it upon themselves to fix that. A high number of indie games have done the rounds and made millions. Because they are actually fun.
    
    You are right that we used to be happy when better gfx came along and we all would gladly shell out for the latest nvidia card. But those were different times. Back th3n we could afford it. Back then gfx were bad and every new generation actually made a tangeble and noticeable improvement.
    
    These days there is barely a difference between a ps4 and ps5.
    
    So stfu. Because you are just wrong.
    
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  - mriormro@lemmy.zip ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Let me ask you something: would you use a trebuchet in lieu of an elevator to reach the 15th floor of a building?
    
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    in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    But that’s my point, people are complaining about elevators because there’s perfectly good stairs. I bet people did say that about elevators, calling them death traps and such, when the early implementations were less safe or less quality. My point is it’s the same with AI, people are afraid of this new cutting edge technology that our current capitalist society can’t handle.
    
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abigscaryhobo@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Taking this bait, I think the problem is that these features are doing multiple things, and almost all of them are bad in the name of “better” graphics (which is subjective)

characters look worse, like AI slop filters were added over their faces and bodies

creative vision of the people making the game is bastardized behind these “enhancements” altering the look and feel of the game.

higher bar for entry for performance requirements and still getting poor performance if you do bite the bullet for a more expensive setup

a lot of these games aren’t that good, don’t get me wrong a few are, but having to buy extra equipment and push your PC to get marginally better graphics to play an “okay” game isn’t gonna make people jump for joy.

You used half life 2 as an example, that was arguably one of the greater games out there at the time, tech and story wise, when it released. People bought better equipment because they wanted to, and even then, the game was still really good. Not so much with these new releases.

You can blame the complaints on people hating AI, they do. But it’s not like everyone who doesn’t like these games and their requirements is hating it just because of DLSS. The problem is people are complaining about performance along side other issues and DLSS is being presented as “the solution to performance issues” when it’s not even close.
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- in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  characters look worse, like AI slop filters were added over their faces and bodies
  
  In many cases that’s true, but not in all cases. Makes sense considering that no games have had this technology to be used in their art direction, no wonder it looks like ass. If your only citation for this take is that one Resident Evil screenshot that made headlines then I suggest you look at the world deeper than just headlines and clickbait engagement farming articles.
  
  creative vision of the people making the game is bastardized behind these “enhancements” altering the look and feel of the game.
  
  I guess all these mods that revamp textures or do ENB shaders or lighting adjustments are “bastardizing” the creative vision too. I would argue that even running a game on low-medium settings for the sake of framerate is bastardizing the creative vision, as artists worked very hard to produce high quality assets meant to be seen in it’s highest fidelity. Do you consider running games on lower graphics settings a bastardization? Didn’t think so.
  
  higher bar for entry for performance requirements and still getting poor performance if you do bite the bullet for a more expensive setup
  
  Again, same with every new generation of graphics tech. It’s always a higher entry for performance, it’s always in the hands of the few first, and poor performance is also, again, not the fault of AI but bad optimization.
  
  a lot of these games aren’t that good, don’t get me wrong a few are, but having to buy extra equipment and push your PC to get marginally better graphics to play an “okay” game isn’t gonna make people jump for joy.
  
  There have always been games that are shit but pushed for graphics, in damn near every console generation since PS2. It’s a unique selling point to have shiny graphics. The good games that last on good gameplay and good optimization for good performance are lauded, and for good reason. AI won’t change that, if anything make even cooler stuff like HL2 did with it’s latest tech. You know what does make shitty games? Situations such as “Studio with best selling game lays off 40% of its developers.” And before you say “But they’re doing that because AI,” again AAA studios have always been doing that since way before, in other industries too, since Thomas Edison. All the EA and Ubisoft controversy? Way before AI. The problem is capitalism, and execs at the top making a buck at the expense of good quality products with planned obsolescence and cheaping out their workers. This is a problem in every industry, AI or not. But these stupid companies that are investing entirely into AI at the expense of good art, writing, and gameplay (whether it uses AI or not) will always fail because it’s slop. It’s the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory “Machines stole my toothpaste job” stuff, old man yelling at cloud behaviour. It’s the exact same logic that blames immigrants for stealing our jobs, without even looking at the bosses who are firing workers and replacing them with exploited immigrants.
  
  I love AI for what it could be, but we’re not ready for it under capitalism. Cognitive offload is only a concern for people who don’t respect learning and understanding to begin with, I say get them out in the open. Smart people don’t fall for it. Capitalism is using AI to destroy itself for short-term gains and it’s happening right before our eyes - “Capitalists will sell you the rope to hang them with,” and all that.
  
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inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
What a utterly stupid take.

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- in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  What an utterly constructive addition to the conversation, cheers.
  
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Kaligalis@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
That sums it pretty much up perfectly.
The overwhelming majority loves DLSS. Until recently, the discussion of Nvidia vs. AMD boiled pretty much down to AMD’s FSR not being on par with DLSS. People legit didn’t buy AMD because AMD had worse AI upscaling.

I like that I can actually use FSR on my 9070 XT to get the notoriously performance-hungry 7 Days To Die to look good and run smooth at 2160p60.
I like that I can just download AI models from Hugging Face and run them locally (cloud AI helped me get the finicky tools installed properly).
My gripe with AI is that I can’t get more than 16 GiB VRAM on an affordable GPU with good AI inference performance. Without the artificial market segmentation, the 9070 XT would have 32 GiB VRAM. I bought mine in the summer dip last year - just before the RAMpocalypse started.
I would definitely slot a cheap Chinese 32 GiB inference accelerator with good FOSS support next to my gaming GPU if there was one. I probably will do so in a few years when China ramped up a massively overbuilt chip sector guaranteeing their independence from western markets fast - and then flooding the global market with the surplus after their own market is saturated.

I play on Gentoo btw.

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