If you think tipping, a current necessity to ensure proper pay, is not something you should be doing why don’t you stop using food services which expect tipping?
They won’t stop underpaying because you don’t too they’ll just blame the worker.
Comment on As if the tip actually goes to the dashers.
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months agoThey already know the pay. The pay isn't enough without the tip, then maybe they should consider getting a different job.
sorrybookbroke@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months ago
A tip before service is not a tip. It's coercion. Maybe we should consider adding regulation to this entire industry to ensure fair pay.
Centillionaire@kbin.social 11 months ago
I’m all for ending tipping culture. And a tip before service may not be a tip, but as long as this is how it’s set up, it’s the current way we must do things.
Just like if you want someone to do some handy work for you, you can go on Craigslist and say “need someone to do ‘x’. Will pay $150” and workers who search on there for jobs will decide whether or not it’s worth it for them to do the job. This job just so happens to be giving you food or a ride.
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months ago
Right, and if a company can't pay their workers enough, then workers are not obligated to work there. It is not my responsibility to ensure your workers are paid fairly, regardless of how things are currently set up.
betheydocrime@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Ok, call your extra payment whatever name you want, and get the ball rolling on legislating new regulations to ensure fair pay. They deserve to get paid more, and when/if those regulations go through the drivers will have a better future.
That didn’t answer the question, though. We both agree that drivers deserve to get paid more, so why not open up your wallet and start paying them more now? Why wait months or years for legislation to go through to force you to pay more, when the power to make sure your driver is paid well is sitting in the palm of your hand today? Your individual act of tipping or not tipping will do nothing to address the system at large, but it will do everything to ensure your driver driver gets paid fairly for the labor they perform while they serve you.
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months ago
Why is it my responsibility to ensure they're paid fairly by me directly? It's the employer's responsibility to pay their workers fairly. If you can't pay your workers fairly, why does your business deserve to exist?
cynar@lemmy.world 11 months ago
In the UK (and a lot of Europe) tipping is completely optional. We only tip for exceptional service or if we’ve made the server’s life difficult. It’s an optional extra for the server.
At this point, it’s so endemic, in the US, that it likely needs to be fixed from the governmental level, but that doesn’t make it something that can’t be complained about.
Devi@kbin.social 11 months ago
American workers rights really scare me. Tipping being allowed to subsidise wages is awful, but so is the safety legislation, and child labour laws. We have issues in the UK obviously, but they're relatively minor in comparison.
wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 11 months ago
It’s only expected because consumers with a similar mentality to yours keep supplying the bandaid. That, and poor local and federal regulation.
driveway@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
take it up with the state you elected. If they allow you to work for a wage that’s not enough to live on, and you don’t get a different job - that’s a you problem not a customer problem.
cynar@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s a poverty trap. Your choice often isn’t “get another job” or stay there. It’s do this job, and survive another month, or quit and be not be able to afford basic necessities (like rent, or food). Unfortunately, the job can leave you too mentally and/or physically exhausted to properly hunt or reskill for another job. It’s a catch 22 situation.
Interestingly, COVID actually helped a lot of people on that front. The government income support, and enforced rest let people stop, breathe and think. Many then went on to do exactly what you suggested. Unfortunately there’s always more to be drawn into the trap.
driveway@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
This doesn’t justify flaming customers because we won’t pay them extra for doing their job. Does it suck for them? Maybe. Do I work hard for my money and don’t want to hand it our to them? Yes.
phillaholic@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Personally I tip 20% or more at most Restaurants. I draw the line at tipping before service as well. They aren’t even pretending anymore that it’s about service.
That said, I don’t use any Gig economy service; I don’t believe in their business models at all, and part of what you are saying is why. Workers shouldn’t be taking on the burden, companies should.
I do tip at some pre-service places that I’m a regular at, but I’ve run into some pretty ridiculous stores asking for tips where nothing warrants it. I try to be fair, but it is getting ridiculous.
SweetRiot@lemmy.world 11 months ago
One of the most ridiculous tipping related thing happened a couple of weeks ago. I was ordering some pantry items from an online store that shipped to me (shipping fee was separate, based on how much is purchased). They had a vinegar that I couldn’t find locally or online elsewhere, and since they are a small business, I decided to order a few other things to support them even though all their prices were a bit higher than other places. When checking out, they asked for a 20-25% tip to help support their small business. That just made me mad. Never going to shop from them again.
phillaholic@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Yes that’s completely ridiculous. You’re helping their small business by shopping there in the first place.
ElleChaise@kbin.social 11 months ago
Practically nobody does uber as their main job, they do it because they either want/need extra money, or are struggling to survive at all. I know uberers, none of them would choose the job, but they can't find other work. There's an intentional lack of employment in this country to keep the workers moving forward; "Do for us, or end up like those people".
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months ago
If your business requires you to exploit your workers in order to make a profit, then your business doesn't deserve to exist. Making excuses for the exploiters changes nothing.
Okokimup@lemmy.world 11 months ago
If the business doesn’t deserve to exist, why do customers keep supporting them? Why is the onus only on the workers to suffer?
bartolomeo@suppo.fi 11 months ago
That’s actually an excellent question. You should look into why people who work for America’s largest employer can only afford to shop at Walmart, have little to no benefits, no job security, and often qualify for food stamps (which is American taxpayers subsidizing their salaries). The owners of America’s largest employer are worth like $140,000,000,000.
Hint: it’s coercion.
zeluko@kbin.social 11 months ago
"Free" market doesnt really work without regulation, otherwise we shift towards current business models where you, the customer, often doesnt really have the choice.
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months ago
Why are customers responsible for ensuring that workers get paid fairly? I'm looking for a service. If your service cannot exist without exploiting your workers, then it doesn't deserve to exist. You are not entitled to exploit people for your own gain.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 11 months ago
The pay is about $2 per order, regardless of mileage. Dashers can typically complete 2-3 orders per hour, and pay for their own fuel. The base pay is absolutely not worth it.
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months ago
They are paid approximately $4 to $6 per hour, and yet some people are still defending the practice and asking customers to pay extra on top of the food and the $10+ delivery charge...
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 11 months ago
Given their compensation model, all I can say is that if you are not willing to tip, and/or you are not willing to tip ahead of time, you absolutely should not use the service at all.
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months ago
And I don't, specifically for that exact reason.
limonfiesta@lemmy.world 11 months ago
You realize that gig economy is the neoliberal slang for a poverty class work, right?
So you’re criticizing people who are forced by the system in which we live, to be ordered around by a fucking algorithm, and then take abuse from people who have enough money to NOT work in the gig economy, but no where near enough to actually own the servant class they get off on abusing.
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months ago
You realize that the gig economy is not my responsibility, right? I'm not criticizing the workers for being underpaid. I'm criticizing the exploiters for underpaying their workers. If you can't pay your workers enough, that is not my fault. You are not entitled to exploit anyone for your personal gain.
ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Study: When questioned about continuing to work for poverty wages, gig workers across the nation respond with resounding “guess I just didn’t think about it because I’m so goddamned stupid” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months ago
The first statement was meant as in these delivery services don't deserve to keep their workers. They should instead look for a better job that will pay them properly. But that's what these delivery services do...prey on the vulnerable that are desperate which is why there should be laws protecting them.
smotherlove@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
I agree with you completely but at the same time I have disdain for gig workers because they all seem to operate under an entirely different set of traffic laws and social conventions. At least where I live.
Kase@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Wdym by social conventions?
smotherlove@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
I see them acting rudely to restaurant staff and grocery store staff often.