Comment on When do we riot?

Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• Jax@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  For what it’s worth, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

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• SparroHawc@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  But think how moderation is actually a tool to destroy creativity, originality and effort.

  I see what you’re trying to get at, but you picked the wrong target. Moderation is a tool to keep a community that is focused around a specific topic from devolving into flame wars, trolling, spam, and co-opting. I don’t know if you have see what happens in large, unmoderated online forums, but it isn’t pretty. Tin-pot despot mods are a big problem, sure, but getting rid of moderation is not the solution.

  Even 4Chan has mods.

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  • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Mods today are not what mods where originally used for. Hell does anyone remember what the original point of up and down voting was for.

    Originally we held a strong belief that the community should control moderation while mods were there to make sure nothing illegal or crazy was posted.

    We also didn’t call people arguing “trolling” but that changed so mods could remove anyone they didn’t agree with. It’s disgusting that we accepted it.

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  • Jax@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Moderation is abused quite literally everywhere, including on Lemmy. I just got banned from Lefty Memes by diva because I said Mao killed millions of people. Reasoning: transphobia/chauvinism.

    This user is 100% correct in their assessment.

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    • Diva@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      last interaction we had you were transphobic as fuck to me, called me a troglodyte, clanker, mentally ill, fake trans, all sorts of gross shit. obviously it never got moderated because .world. I even posted my fucking sharps container, some good that did.

      then i see your name pop up doing apologia for US empire. obviously it’s on sight, go pollute some other space with your presence.

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      • Jax@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        How was I transphobic? Because I assume everything you say is a lie?

        You can say whatever you want, the reality is that you have a personal grudge against me because I don’t accept your bullshit and I call you out on it.

        Imagine suggesting that detailing the millions of deaths in the great leap forward is ‘U.S. Empire apologia’. Like I said, you’re 100% mentally ill - and you routinely lie or sweep for countries responsible for millions of their own peoples deaths.

        Choke on it.

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• plyth@feddit.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  If you cannot fight in an online digital space and get measurable victories in a low effort maximum impact environment then a revolution is just going to get people killed

  Has anybody an idea of what is lacking?

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  • dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    One thing comes to mind: overcome or circumvent “the algorithm.”

    Retreating from spaces like X and Reddit has had one big drawback: we are choosing to not engage with people that have bought into propaganda and right-wing rhetoric. There’s no winning anyone over or changing minds if you’re not there to speak.

    At the same time, those spaces have elevated the generation of echo chambers to an art. Algorithmic feeds of all kinds of media are strongly reinforcing this. Breaking into those spaces would be a useful ability to bring change. Again, we can’t even begin to address that kind of a problem if nobody is there.

    Alternately, we need a vehicle that can go around all of the above. What does that look like? I don’t know. Alternate media like print perhaps? Or maybe just an outrageously good youtube channel? Anything would be better than nothing.

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    • plyth@feddit.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      There’s no winning anyone over or changing minds if you’re not there to speak.

      I totally agree.

      Alternately, we need a vehicle that can go around all of the above. What does that look like? I don’t know. Alternate media like print perhaps? Or maybe just an outrageously good youtube channel? Pooling some cash and buying advertising space? Anything would be better than nothing.

      This is a valuable idea. How can we grow it?

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      • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Wasn’t this the purpose of zines?

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      • dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        I have no plan. Only a few concepts and tactics.

        Print newsletters keep coming to mind. Perhaps that’s me romancing a bygone era where sweat equity gets you distribution and readership, even if it’s just a single page. Then again, print has never been cheaper for the common-man, and sitting on top of global digital distribution would create an impressive reach.

        We can also start making “conservative alt accounts” in social media, in order to penetrate those spaces. Build a profile that gets you into echo chambers that you don’t want anywhere near your real life. At the very least, before all these damn photo ID features and laws go into place.

        There really needs to be a playbook for dismantling propaganda, and how to handle people that are programmed to parrot talking points. Like some kind of conversational aikido.

        Social media rides on optics, tagging, and vibes. It might be possible to co-opt the style and tagging of existing content, say Newsmax, and provide a palatable lean for recent topics for a conservative audience. This is nothing like going full-bore “The Onion”^1^, but rather, providing a positive framing or just undercut the lies that are in the same space. Report the exact same stories - move for move - just without the hyperbole, lies, and vitriol. Facts should speak for themselves.

        In fact, more positivity online in general might be a big help to everyone. The algorithm rewards engagement, and while rage bait is 100x easier to create, stuff that makes people feel good (e.g. kittens) gets good traction too. Granted, that’s a high-effort and talent-focused operation - not for everyone.

        Lastly, it’s possible that we could see a great firewall go up around the US, or find de-facto censorship and de-platforming a huge problem to any attempt to better organize digitally. Once you’re a legit problem, the ban-hammers will come out. I think it prudent to be prepared to take to mesh networking, radio, sneakernet, private couriers, (again) print, anything that works around a complete fascist takeover of the internet. Fortunately, the bandwidth and storage requirements for truth and information are shockingly small. It won’t take much.

        1. InfoWars has it right by laying out a massive all-onion buffet, but man is that a tough watch.

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• moncharleskey@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I don’t think it’s quite as bad as you suggest, but I understand where you’re coming from here. I think it’s also worth considering who stands to benefit from our lack of organization. When the right wing wins, the billionaires win, but when the left wing wins, the billionaires lose. Left wing leaders are systematically targeted and repressed. MLK Jr wasn’t assassinated until his message started to reach more than just poor black people. When he started encouraging all people to throw off the yolk of the ruling class, by providing for themselves instead of being good little capitalist consumers, that’s when he became so dangerous it was worth it to murder him. We need leadership, yes, but we also need a message that endures through whatever they throw at us. I think it’s possible, and I hope we can make it happen.

  I never read the rules before posting btw, I just went for it.

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  • FudgyMcTubbs@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    *Yoke, btw. Just in case you want to use the word again in the future.

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    • moncharleskey@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Ah, you’re right, that was actually a mental typo so thanks for the catch.

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