Comment on Anon is 23
CameronDev@programming.dev 1 hour agoMy point is that by the time you have the paper, in either case, there is zero reliable proof that you can do either job. Real world work experience (successfully ran a sparky business, or successfully held a job for a few years) counts far more than the paper does.
SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
If you can’t handle the trade, a company’s not going to keep you on, and the next company will look at your apprenticeship record and see your lack of training. From there you’ve flunked out.
The system protects itself. So yes if you have a ticket, you can atleast do something in that trade. A degree, IS just a piece of paper. A trade certificate shows you are competent and able to complete tasks.
To finish an apprenticeship you need to hold that job for four years dude… they’ve met your arbitrary distinction lol.
CameronDev@programming.dev 1 hour ago
You are assuming that the company cares about training, and not just a source of cheap labour. Apprentices are paid barely above minimum wage in Aus, and there are kickbacks to the companies to encourage employing them.
If it worked as you described (which is how it should work), I would absolutely agree with you, but the system in Aus happily churns out some absolute duds. Just like the uni system.
Also, for what its worth, many uni degrees include a year of paid internship, but there are similar issues that allow duds to sail through there as well.
SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
Actually where I am, it’s a government enforced sponsorship, so both sides need to do things correctly.
An apprentice has to be 60% of the lowest paid journeyman, and if you don’t go to school every 24 months they kick you out.
CameronDev@programming.dev 54 minutes ago
That sounds like a far better system then, so definitely explains the difference in quality.
velma@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
There’s so many differences between countries on this that I think you both are arguing ineffectively.
In the US, there are union jobs that require apprenticeships and labor hours. There are also plenty of companies that will hire non-union workers with no certs. There’s a lot of variance.
velma@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
I agree with you overall - the paper is important and it holds a lot of weight.
There’s also a lot of hiring in smaller companies that overlooks certificates. On the job experience is weighted pretty heavily as well in the trades. If you can’t handle it, you’ll get fired eventually, but companies are happy to employ mediocre trade workers without certs.
SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
Unfortunately not every trade is “regulated” the same either. Technically you can work my trade without a ticket, carpentry. But getting the ticket shows initiative as well as a bunch of other stuff to prospective employers or clients.
Theres also parents pushing their kids through their companies, but the schooling is also still a hurdle to get through. Got to pass the school work and the shop work and final test each year.
Fourth year school you had to make a desk in 32 hours. Every hour over that to 40 costs you points. It’s interesting because it forces you to decide if it’s worth time fixing something for the extra points for a few lost to time. So there’s lots of little hidden information in that trade ticket.
velma@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
I’ve worked in various blue collar/trade jobs and this is true almost all the way across the board. You can get hired on experience, but the certs make you invaluable.