Comment on British Charlie Kirk wannabe beaten up debating people in Manchester
WhoIzDisIz@lemmy.today 19 hours ago
I don’t like these types any more than most sane people do, but I’m not really a fan of stooping to their level, either.
But it’s back to the arguement about the paradox of tolerance. If you don’t beat these people they’ll keep doing it. Given that they’re calling for the lies of others to be destroyed inaction is not really an option.
Someone’s going to suffer either way, might as well be the little skid mark that’s causing the problem to begin with.
The “paradox of tolerance” implies that you need constitutional guarantees against threats to democracy, not that you can go around beating people up for being anti-immigrant loudmouth prick.
We have legal prohibitions against hate speech and incitement that have been arrived at democratically: deciding that they don’t go far enough so you’re going to take matters into your own hands is not just violent and lawless but supremely arrogant.
It also plays into the fascists’ desire for violence. It’s wrong morally, legally and practically.
All of this is true, and this guy is still a shitstain who ought to shut up.
Then you’re a part of the problem, namby-pamby fence sitters
No liberal lefty cunt is gonna tell me punching Nazis ain’t the way If you wanna hold hands and sing go do it over there while the big boys play OK
The
anti‐Semitefascist has chosen hate because hate is a faith; at the outset he has chosen to devaluate words and reasons. How entirely at ease he feels as a result. How futile and frivolous discussions about the rights ofthe Jewothers appear to him. He has placed himself on other ground from the beginning. If out of courtesy he consents for a moment to defend his point of view, he lends himself but does not give himself. He tries simply to project his intuitive certainty onto the plane of discourse…
…Never believe that
anti‐ Semitesfascists are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. Theanti‐Semitesfascists have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side.
en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Paul_Sartre
Fascists don’t care about words or reasoning. They spread hate, discrimination, and lies and when challenged spout more lies to justify it. Even if presented with cold hard, unrefutable, facts.
When words, debate, and diplomacy can no longer prevent the calls to violence, the bigotry, the intolerance, then there is but one option; to speak the language they do understand.
The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance.
They’re using that age old rhetorical device of children of asking “why” forever regardless of the answer just to annoy their parents.
In this case they are adults and if someone can’t answer their questions the way they want then they’re right by default. And they believe they are great minds in the process.
Yeah waiting it out and seeing them realize the error of their ways through slow social isolation has definitely happened and there definitely aren’t any ramifications to letting themselves simply spew their hate speech out into the world.
Nothing bad ever happened to us when we stayed out of the mud, except for, you know, fucking everything, you asshat.
The next time someone you love is murdered and/or harassed because they were inspired by a Charlie Kirk wannabe, remember to be the “bigger person” and don’t stoop to their level. 🖕🏽
They didn’t stoop to his level, he’s a racist, fascist piece of shit. I’d say they were patient and kind, all things considered.
Considering he wants people’s lives destroyed, I’d say beating his ass was a kindness. It’s the closest thing to effective communication you can get with a Nazi without doing even worse to them.
svcg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 hours ago
Anyone who is advocating for “remigration” is advocating for the use of violence to remove racial minorities.
If you are a pacifist and you don’t believe in violence in any circumstance, then fine. But if ever there is a time to use violence in defence of ourselves and the vulnerable in our society, I believe it’s now, before the state is captured by fascists. I think that if we had another Battle of Cable Street instead of a counter-protest at the next few “Unite the Kingdom” rallies (or whatever they call them these days) then we’d sort this shit out real fast.