Comment on Just give me someone to vote for who is normal

• SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  He wants to return to a past that never existed by tearing down the current system. He promotes the idea that men must return to being warriors, and something about the modern world has made them “weak.” He promotes that such strength must be used to dominate, and claims it can be used to improve people’s lives, as he claims with Raymond K. Hessel, despite the fact that Hessel is most likely left devastated with trauma and unable to move forward due to fear of being murdered.

  But sure, he’s not a fascist.

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  • marcos@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Without your bad rephrasing:

    1 - “The cult of tradition” - At no point he gives any shit to tradition

    2 - “The rejection of modernism” - That’s partial at best, and partial hits do not count on that scale

    3 - “The cult of action for action’s sake” - Yes

    4 - “Disagreement is treason” - Absolutely not

    5 - “Fear of difference” - Dude, how the fuck did you claim he hits that one? Absolutely not

    6 - “Appeal to a frustrated middle class” - Yes

    7 - “Obsession with a plot” - Yes

    8 - cast their enemies as “at the same time too strong and too weak” - Their enemies are never strong

    9 - “Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy” - Absolutely not

    10 - “Contempt for the weak” - Absolutely not

    11 - “Everybody is educated to become a hero” - Yes

    12 - “Machismo” - Yes

    13 - “Selective populism” - Yes

    14 - “Newspeak” - No

    Anyway, it’s complete bullshit to just list those criteria like they are a checklist. I’ve listed them here just to show that even that bullshit argument is bullshit by its own standards.

    Are you claiming that fascists don’t need to be authoritarian? It’s not on the list, by the way.

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    • SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      2. Rejection of modernism. He literally wants to return to a tribal society.

      3. Fear of difference. He literally beats the shit out of the pretty guy for being “different” and pretty. Project Mayhem are all forced to dress the same and have no names. They are berated for a week in front of the building before being accepted.

      4. Cast the enemies as both too strong and too weak. Tyler plans to destroy credit card companies and reset debt to zero, a lot of people would claim the financial system is an enemy that is strong, but also portrayed as weak when they strong-arm the politician threatening to cut his balls off.

      5. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. They threaten to cut off people’s balls who threaten to expose them, the cops are literally about to do it to Tyler himself at the end of the film, because stopping Project Mayhem is a pacifist route.

      6. If you don’t see the contempt for the weak here and how they only accepted Bob into their fold because the narrator pitied him, I don’t know what to tell you. Tyler would have rejected Bob as unfit and weak.

      These are the ones we obviously disagree on, so these are the ones I’m addressing.

      But yeah, 10 out of 14 is pretty telling in my opinion. No, this list of Eco’s isn’t definitive, but it’s got good depth and is a good starting point showing that clearly Tyler has fascist tendencies.

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      • boonhet@sopuli.xyz ⁨33⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

        It’s been too long since I’ve read the book, but at least in the film it’s consumer culture in particular that he’s talking about when it comes to modernity. I think most of us agree with him on that one

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  • School_Lunch@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Its been a long time since I’ve seen the movie but I always thought he was an anarchist who just wanted to burn everything to the ground.

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    • SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I mean, presenting themselves as just standing for the common man and wanting to tear down a broken system and don’t have ulterior motives is one hundred percent on brand for fascism.

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    • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Fascists coopting socialist language to obfuscate their class loyalties and goals is unfortunately fairly common

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