The first one isn’t misogyny. Minus the specifivity of the “$2 million” part, its the Jewish tradition of what is required for a man to be able to propose. “Having kids is too expensive” is just the straight-up truth for anyone who isn’t uncommonly comfortable relying on charity and/or society.
Like, are we going off the avatar, pretending a woman who says those things is crazy? Because she’s absolutely not, and neither are the men trying to live up to those items, at a minimum.
I don’t know how Jewish it is, but it is part of a general trend of how society treats marriage.
Generations back, marriage was considered the beginning, a cornerstone for building an adult life on. Now, it’s shifted more towards a capstone, a thing that you can add to your life once you get your shit together. That has shifted expectations in dating, as well as expectations of how independent young adults need to be.
And it has pushed back expectations of what it means to be ready to have children. And once a higher percentage of parents have more money when they have kids, it also subtly shifts the expectations of parenting, as well:
“Having kids is too expensive” is just the straight-up truth for anyone who isn’t uncommonly comfortable relying on charity and/or society.
What’s wrong with relying on society? Having a good family and social circle is basically the most important part of being ready to have kids. My wife and I waited till we were rich before having kids, but we still heavily rely on our family, friends, and neighbors to enrich our children’s lives, while also being there for them and their children: rotating babysitting duties if some parents want to go on a date or even go out of town, rotating dinner hosting so only one family has to cook and clean, getting the kids together so that they can play and socialize, etc. We can’t do the parenting thing in isolation, but I don’t think society expects us to.
Relying on society, when it works out, still usually leaves you with over-extended or strained relationships(especially with friends and family), and kids who will never understand just what was so important about their conceptions and births that couldn’t have waited until you were a little more ready and not constantly stressed to the breaking point - kids who are absolutely right.
Ask me how I know. If I look at it from the stand-point of the heart-attack that seems due any day now, maybe there was some urgency, but without trying to shoe-horn kids into a lifestyle that wasn’t ready for them and ultimately had to be abandoned in-favor of doing whatever it takes to keep them happy and healthy, external/internal consequences be damned, then my health outlook might not look so bleak.
All that, and have you seen divorce statistics. Jesus FUCK, have you SEEN divorce statistics? … and it’s somehow still okay to throw massive financial insecurity into the mix, the SINGLE GREATEST driver of divorce? Sure. Aim for the stars, kid. The world is your oyster and all that.
Relying on society, when it works out, still usually leaves you with over-extended or strained relationships
No, framing that as the best case scenario is just a complete lack of imagination. I’m closer with my friends and family now because we have regular meetups and more scheduled social contact. The idea that this kind of stuff would strain my friendships is actually pretty foreign to me. We do things for each other, and that brings us closer rather than piling up one-way resentment for the people who give more than they get.
I find life to be less stressful when I’m around people I love. And that was always true, before I had kids, too.
All that, and have you seen divorce statistics. Jesus FUCK, have you SEEN divorce statistics?
Having a good family and social circle is basically the most important part of being ready to have kids
Well, bad news for you there, too: since we’re all busy working and commuting and moving states for jobs and our third places are disappearing for various reasons, because our connections have moved globally online instead of locally offline, we are all further away from our families of origin and have smaller social circles to help support our physical lives.
man, i wonder why people felt comfortable enough getting married asap…could it perhaps be connected to the fact you used to be able to affoed a house, raise a family, still take the ocassional vacation, all onon a single minimum wage job?
They think they are shooting you down, when really they are shoving you out of the way of the bullet that is themselves. “You know where to find me when you grow up" is a line I had worn-out by the end of my teens, yet I never get to leave it out of my repertoir for long.
The world is swimming in children of all ages. The only “favor” having them young migh do is forcing them to grow up a little earlier, and only if you’re very lucky, they are still whole enough to both resent you for it and forgive you. People think their adult children still idolizing them is a good result, but those children are NOT grown.
My favorite is when they tell me I’m a immature one because I don’t want to be their daddy.
And what sucks is there is nobody who isn’t a bullet. Everyone is like this now, at least in my dating pool. People don’t grow and self reflect as they age, they just double-down on their bitterness towards others.
MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
The first one isn’t misogyny. Minus the specifivity of the “$2 million” part, its the Jewish tradition of what is required for a man to be able to propose. “Having kids is too expensive” is just the straight-up truth for anyone who isn’t uncommonly comfortable relying on charity and/or society.
Like, are we going off the avatar, pretending a woman who says those things is crazy? Because she’s absolutely not, and neither are the men trying to live up to those items, at a minimum.
exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
I don’t know how Jewish it is, but it is part of a general trend of how society treats marriage.
Generations back, marriage was considered the beginning, a cornerstone for building an adult life on. Now, it’s shifted more towards a capstone, a thing that you can add to your life once you get your shit together. That has shifted expectations in dating, as well as expectations of how independent young adults need to be.
And it has pushed back expectations of what it means to be ready to have children. And once a higher percentage of parents have more money when they have kids, it also subtly shifts the expectations of parenting, as well:
What’s wrong with relying on society? Having a good family and social circle is basically the most important part of being ready to have kids. My wife and I waited till we were rich before having kids, but we still heavily rely on our family, friends, and neighbors to enrich our children’s lives, while also being there for them and their children: rotating babysitting duties if some parents want to go on a date or even go out of town, rotating dinner hosting so only one family has to cook and clean, getting the kids together so that they can play and socialize, etc. We can’t do the parenting thing in isolation, but I don’t think society expects us to.
MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
Relying on society, when it works out, still usually leaves you with over-extended or strained relationships(especially with friends and family), and kids who will never understand just what was so important about their conceptions and births that couldn’t have waited until you were a little more ready and not constantly stressed to the breaking point - kids who are absolutely right.
Ask me how I know. If I look at it from the stand-point of the heart-attack that seems due any day now, maybe there was some urgency, but without trying to shoe-horn kids into a lifestyle that wasn’t ready for them and ultimately had to be abandoned in-favor of doing whatever it takes to keep them happy and healthy, external/internal consequences be damned, then my health outlook might not look so bleak.
All that, and have you seen divorce statistics. Jesus FUCK, have you SEEN divorce statistics? … and it’s somehow still okay to throw massive financial insecurity into the mix, the SINGLE GREATEST driver of divorce? Sure. Aim for the stars, kid. The world is your oyster and all that.
exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
No, framing that as the best case scenario is just a complete lack of imagination. I’m closer with my friends and family now because we have regular meetups and more scheduled social contact. The idea that this kind of stuff would strain my friendships is actually pretty foreign to me. We do things for each other, and that brings us closer rather than piling up one-way resentment for the people who give more than they get.
I find life to be less stressful when I’m around people I love. And that was always true, before I had kids, too.
Divorce rates have been dropping over the last 40 years, are especially low for college educated couples who got married after the age of 30.
Take a deep breath and realize that lots of people are living lots of different lives. Try to imagine that some of us are happy, too.
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Well, bad news for you there, too: since we’re all busy working and commuting and moving states for jobs and our third places are disappearing for various reasons, because our connections have moved globally online instead of locally offline, we are all further away from our families of origin and have smaller social circles to help support our physical lives.
IronBird@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
man, i wonder why people felt comfortable enough getting married asap…could it perhaps be connected to the fact you used to be able to affoed a house, raise a family, still take the ocassional vacation, all onon a single minimum wage job?
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 2 months ago
because you shouldn’t have to be rich af to have kids. or a house, or stable employment.
and yet, society is telling us that you will never have any of this, unless you were lucky enough to be born rich.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 2 months ago
expecting a 2 million dollar home, is legit crazy.
MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
They think they are shooting you down, when really they are shoving you out of the way of the bullet that is themselves. “You know where to find me when you grow up" is a line I had worn-out by the end of my teens, yet I never get to leave it out of my repertoir for long.
The world is swimming in children of all ages. The only “favor” having them young migh do is forcing them to grow up a little earlier, and only if you’re very lucky, they are still whole enough to both resent you for it and forgive you. People think their adult children still idolizing them is a good result, but those children are NOT grown.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 2 months ago
My favorite is when they tell me I’m a immature one because I don’t want to be their daddy.
And what sucks is there is nobody who isn’t a bullet. Everyone is like this now, at least in my dating pool. People don’t grow and self reflect as they age, they just double-down on their bitterness towards others.