Comment on Just an idea

• wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  I think Abraham was originally from Ur, which was near Sumer…

  But then again, nothing was written down until the time of Moses, so it really depends on how much you want to trust oral tradition.

  The early Hebrew script was directly related to the Phoenician alphabet and Egyptian hieroglyphs though, so it does seem they at least had more than cursory contact with those civilizations

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  • captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Yeah but Phonecians and Egyptians were in a shared trade sphere with Canaan. Phonecians were some of the primary traders of the Mediterranean and their city of Tyre is now in Lebanon. Ramesses II like many Pharoahs went on campaign in Canaan.

    Canaan was a borderland between the spheres of influence of Mesopotamia and Egypt. It was a nice spot on the Mediterranean that never got powerful enough to challenge either for more than independence or mild incursion, and was far enough from each that it was hard to hold and different enough to contain exotic goods.

    Abraham being from Ur makes sense. There’s a lot of Mesopotamian influence in Judaism. Sure it’s far, but the Hebrews saw themselves as people who left civilization after it became too corrupt to go be shepherds in the desert. All of that maps to things we know happened in various Mesopotamian cities at various times (and is common in all ancient cities). From there we have schismogenetic counterpoints with Mesopotamia, especially in the form of sexual mores (they aren’t calling Babylon a whore because they think it’s cool that Mesopotamians had sacred prostitution).

    The bit I’m far more doubtful of is the long term enslavement in Egypt. Especially the stories of Joseph and Moses.

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  • Etterra@discuss.online ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    When you read the old testament there’s a lot of stuff about how cities are bad and don’t offer hospitality. That’s a big deal with nomadic and semi-nomadic tribes, and was even the key sin in their description of Sodom and Gomorrah. It all harkons back to the early bronze age and that transition into sedentary lifestyle, with a lot of oral traditions sticking around as scripture once it got written down.

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    • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      Even in Genesis, God supposedly preferred the sheep herder over the agrarian

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      • Etterra@discuss.online ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Yeah it gives the story of Cain & Able a whole new meaning. Imagine being in the situation as presented. You are literally the 3rd and 4th humans to exist. All you know is that God is awesome but your parents fucked up so now you have to work for a living. You bust your ass every day to make sure the food you’ve planted grows to provide not just for your family, but to give to God for some reason, just in case he’s hungry is 8 whatever.

        Your brother does the same, but instead of vegetables he murders a fucking lamb. Maybe he kills sheep for food all the time, out maybe this is literally the first time he’s ever killed one. Your parents never ate meat, they lived in the Garden and are fruits and vegetables. But here’s God giving your brother mad props for his baby animal murder while you sacrifice a month’s worth of food and God - God - is all “yeah whatever, should have killed something that bleeds instead.”

        You’d have lost your mind too, your whole psychological worldview just got bitch slapped by the Almighty. “Oh he wants blood? Okay, I know where to find plenty. C’mere brother.”

        And people wonder why I call their god the Tyrant.

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      • backalleycoyote@lemmy.today ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        The shepherd thrives by exploiting the existence of a fellow animal’s flesh for their own gain. God (religion) thrives by exploiting a fellow human being’s hopes, fears, insecurities, and desire for purpose for it’s own gain. Plants are alive but not to the same level of awareness we can recognize in other animals, and we do have to eat something to stay alive. But it’s little wonder that a made up god favors the development of hierarchies of exploitation that use those who commodify others most effectively as the best example.

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