I understand the point youre trying to make but if you know anything about the mental health disorder theyre talking about the narcissist is definitely also suffering 😅
I mean sure, but they mostly suffer from not enough admiration and servitude (in their eyes) whereas the others around them suffer from constant manipulation, lying, etc.
Also narcissism doesn’t equal an actual NPD diagnosis because to get that you’d first have to realize you’re not perfect, which a lot of narcissists are incapable of. Honestly, anyone who actually has the diagnosis is probably a significantly better person than a narcissist that doesn’t realize it and seek help.
I know at least 2 such individuals, one being my ex. They’re so good at lying that they’ll look at you in the eye and blame shit they’ve done on you and you’ll almost believe them. I don’t just mean the standard “I did X but it’s only because you made me feel bad so it’s actually your fault”. I also mean my ex complaining to CPS about things she’s done as if it’d been me. She’s the kind of person that enjoys hitting a 2 or 3 year old with a belt for not eating enough. Luckily that wasn’t my kid or even her other kid (was her friend’s, said friend lived with us to escape a violent relationship, but eh… Not a major improvement. Luckily she got away from it all and I believe is now actually living a fairly happy life).
I slept 16 hours a week at most and I was told I wasn’t doing enough and it was MY fault our relationship and finances suffered. Always kept telling me I didn’t let her sleep or go out enough even though there were periods where she spent no more than 4-5 hours awake at home per day while I was working an average of 60-70 hours a week and took care of the kids most of the time. Why did I have to work this much? She had a 2-3 strollers per month kinda stroller addiction. Roughly half of them I had to buy brand new. On my payday she’d buy whichever stroller she wanted, would order McDonald’s 2-3 times a day for the next week and then the next 3 weeks I had to get money off my side gigs and beg my friends for loans. She kept telling me how it was my fault that we never had money despite her frivolous spending per month adding up to more than some families earn in a quarter.
She doesn’t have an NPD diagnosis. She says she’s completely fine “other than the trauma from all the things you did to me” (aka letting her go out to fuck around only 5-6 nights a week instead of 7 and only letting her sleep till 1-2 PM, as well as sometimes refusing to buy her shit which caused her to pretend she’d kill herself).
So sure, she suffers too, but her suffering is delusions of grandeur that cause her to make bad decisions, whereas the tens or potentially hundreds of victims suffer in many other ways. Put it this way: if you loan her money and ask for it back and 3 months later she still hasn’t paid and you make a Facebook post warning people not to lend her money, she’ll report you to the police. That’s happened to at least 2-3 people (not me, I don’t like public squabbling). Literally accusing her of any wrongdoing will result in a police report and/or lawsuit. 3 months after our divorce she asked me to buy her a car and I refused, 2 days later she said I’m not seeing my child anymore because (list of things she usually does, but claims I do them). Said child had been living with me full time for 4 months and not a single complaint from her before that.
Her 5 year old from a previous relationship is also known for crying out “I don’t want mommy” because of all the abuse.
So yes, I’m of the opinion that narcissists don’t suffer nearly as much as the people around them, especially their kids if they have them (in the case of my ex she’s hoping to have more because every kid is one more man she can manipulate)
PS: the other narcissist I know? The boyfriend she had after me. Carbon copy of her. Confirmed with other mutual acquaintances that it wasn’t just her stories, he really is just as horrible as her. That almost made me believe in the existence of karma. Sadly I don’t think either of them realized that they’re both horrible people. But both are struggling to find new suckers to finance their lifestyles so I think they’re both homeless and couchsurfing now. Turns out if your income is selling fictional goods and borrowing money from friends, it doesn’t last forever. Of course everyone else is at fault for that.
Earlier today. I was at an Indigenous tour. I learned a lot of local history, spoke to the Rainbow Serpent, and learned how to make soap from a bush. It was great fun, and now I know several new Indigenous words.
In terms of labeling, participants repeatedly reported that the word “narcissist” has become synonymous with an insult. This reality can make it difficult for patients to accept their diagnosis.
We shouldn’t use words in ways that make neurodivergent people feel awful.
I consider Wikipedia more reliable than vast portions of primary sources. I have seen the awful quality of many papers - “publish or perish” is a thing in science.
And yes, obviously the label “narcissist” is an insult. Just like calling someone “stupid”. When using it as an insult however, it is clearly meant to say this person displays high amounts of narcissism and behaves like a self-centered asshole.
This is different to insults such as “autistic” because that is not a personality style but rather a clinical diagnosis. It would be akin to using the term “disabled” as an insult.
Narcissism is a negative trait if you have too much. That is why it’s an insult. If I say someone is “smelly” I am also insulting their body odor. Doesn’t mean people who struggle with body hygiene for whatever reason should also feel insulted by that.
This feels to me more like a person-first language preference in this context. NDT likely has NPD- maybe he finds it empowering to use identity-first language
That’s not identity first language. That’s identity only language. Identity first language would be “narcissistic person”, which I’m fine with. But identity only language is dehumanising. If you have autism and I call you an autist, or if you have schizophrenia and I call you a sc*zo, does that feel good?
Fair distinction on the identity-only bit- I didn’t think that through all the way. However, I do refer to myself as an autist, and I know plenty of autists who feel the same (I make it a habit to ask). Similarly, I refer to myself as bipolar and, naturally, as a narcissist. Hell, even “ADHDer” has become a thing, bc people like nouns. There’s no noun version for bipolar yet, but I’ll be using it if it ever becomes a thing.
I don’t think it’s dehumanizing; I think it’s empowering, like taking back the word queer. It absolutely does rub me the wrong way though when someone who doesn’t fit the category does it though
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 2 months ago
“N*rcissist”, which should be replaced with “person living with NPD”
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
You mean the other people have to live with a narcissist. The narcissist isn’t the one suffering.
Cris_Citrus@piefed.zip 2 months ago
I understand the point youre trying to make but if you know anything about the mental health disorder theyre talking about the narcissist is definitely also suffering 😅
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
I mean sure, but they mostly suffer from not enough admiration and servitude (in their eyes) whereas the others around them suffer from constant manipulation, lying, etc.
Also narcissism doesn’t equal an actual NPD diagnosis because to get that you’d first have to realize you’re not perfect, which a lot of narcissists are incapable of. Honestly, anyone who actually has the diagnosis is probably a significantly better person than a narcissist that doesn’t realize it and seek help.
I know at least 2 such individuals, one being my ex. They’re so good at lying that they’ll look at you in the eye and blame shit they’ve done on you and you’ll almost believe them. I don’t just mean the standard “I did X but it’s only because you made me feel bad so it’s actually your fault”. I also mean my ex complaining to CPS about things she’s done as if it’d been me. She’s the kind of person that enjoys hitting a 2 or 3 year old with a belt for not eating enough. Luckily that wasn’t my kid or even her other kid (was her friend’s, said friend lived with us to escape a violent relationship, but eh… Not a major improvement. Luckily she got away from it all and I believe is now actually living a fairly happy life).
I slept 16 hours a week at most and I was told I wasn’t doing enough and it was MY fault our relationship and finances suffered. Always kept telling me I didn’t let her sleep or go out enough even though there were periods where she spent no more than 4-5 hours awake at home per day while I was working an average of 60-70 hours a week and took care of the kids most of the time. Why did I have to work this much? She had a 2-3 strollers per month kinda stroller addiction. Roughly half of them I had to buy brand new. On my payday she’d buy whichever stroller she wanted, would order McDonald’s 2-3 times a day for the next week and then the next 3 weeks I had to get money off my side gigs and beg my friends for loans. She kept telling me how it was my fault that we never had money despite her frivolous spending per month adding up to more than some families earn in a quarter.
She doesn’t have an NPD diagnosis. She says she’s completely fine “other than the trauma from all the things you did to me” (aka letting her go out to fuck around only 5-6 nights a week instead of 7 and only letting her sleep till 1-2 PM, as well as sometimes refusing to buy her shit which caused her to pretend she’d kill herself).
So sure, she suffers too, but her suffering is delusions of grandeur that cause her to make bad decisions, whereas the tens or potentially hundreds of victims suffer in many other ways. Put it this way: if you loan her money and ask for it back and 3 months later she still hasn’t paid and you make a Facebook post warning people not to lend her money, she’ll report you to the police. That’s happened to at least 2-3 people (not me, I don’t like public squabbling). Literally accusing her of any wrongdoing will result in a police report and/or lawsuit. 3 months after our divorce she asked me to buy her a car and I refused, 2 days later she said I’m not seeing my child anymore because (list of things she usually does, but claims I do them). Said child had been living with me full time for 4 months and not a single complaint from her before that.
Her 5 year old from a previous relationship is also known for crying out “I don’t want mommy” because of all the abuse.
So yes, I’m of the opinion that narcissists don’t suffer nearly as much as the people around them, especially their kids if they have them (in the case of my ex she’s hoping to have more because every kid is one more man she can manipulate)
PS: the other narcissist I know? The boyfriend she had after me. Carbon copy of her. Confirmed with other mutual acquaintances that it wasn’t just her stories, he really is just as horrible as her. That almost made me believe in the existence of karma. Sadly I don’t think either of them realized that they’re both horrible people. But both are struggling to find new suckers to finance their lifestyles so I think they’re both homeless and couchsurfing now. Turns out if your income is selling fictional goods and borrowing money from friends, it doesn’t last forever. Of course everyone else is at fault for that.
FishFace@piefed.social 2 months ago
When was the last time you felt the calming embrace of grass, my friend?
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 2 months ago
Earlier today. I was at an Indigenous tour. I learned a lot of local history, spoke to the Rainbow Serpent, and learned how to make soap from a bush. It was great fun, and now I know several new Indigenous words.
FishFace@piefed.social 2 months ago
Perplexing.
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
The term narcissist doesn’t just refer to someone with that personality disorder.
If you are a self-centered asshole, you are a narcissist regardless of an NPD diagnosis.
See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism
Same with calling someone stupid. It doesn’t mean they have a learning disability.
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 2 months ago
Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Here’s a primary source, which is more reliable:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40107324/
We shouldn’t use words in ways that make neurodivergent people feel awful.
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
I consider Wikipedia more reliable than vast portions of primary sources. I have seen the awful quality of many papers - “publish or perish” is a thing in science.
And yes, obviously the label “narcissist” is an insult. Just like calling someone “stupid”. When using it as an insult however, it is clearly meant to say this person displays high amounts of narcissism and behaves like a self-centered asshole.
This is different to insults such as “autistic” because that is not a personality style but rather a clinical diagnosis. It would be akin to using the term “disabled” as an insult.
Narcissism is a negative trait if you have too much. That is why it’s an insult. If I say someone is “smelly” I am also insulting their body odor. Doesn’t mean people who struggle with body hygiene for whatever reason should also feel insulted by that.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space 2 months ago
Only a narcissist thinks the term narcissist is a slur. Lather rinse repeat of “boomer”.
I wonder how often your behavior causes you to get called that?
TherapyGary@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
This feels to me more like a person-first language preference in this context. NDT likely has NPD- maybe he finds it empowering to use identity-first language
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 2 months ago
That’s not identity first language. That’s identity only language. Identity first language would be “narcissistic person”, which I’m fine with. But identity only language is dehumanising. If you have autism and I call you an autist, or if you have schizophrenia and I call you a sc*zo, does that feel good?
TherapyGary@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Fair distinction on the identity-only bit- I didn’t think that through all the way. However, I do refer to myself as an autist, and I know plenty of autists who feel the same (I make it a habit to ask). Similarly, I refer to myself as bipolar and, naturally, as a narcissist. Hell, even “ADHDer” has become a thing, bc people like nouns. There’s no noun version for bipolar yet, but I’ll be using it if it ever becomes a thing.
I don’t think it’s dehumanizing; I think it’s empowering, like taking back the word queer. It absolutely does rub me the wrong way though when someone who doesn’t fit the category does it though