CS 1.6 with War3 mod was peak. Classes, Skill Trees, leveling up based on kills and rounds won.
Reviving teammates, insanely OP grenades, partial invisibility, and other ridiculous abilities.
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
Is Counter Strike ever going to innovate or just keep monetizing with empty fluff?
mctoasterson@reddthat.com 1 day ago
DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
I got bored in the 1.6 and CS Source days, are people even playing different maps or is it still the same 5 maps over and over and over?
At least you can surf and bhop properly in these games.
Try searching for surf_.
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
Eeew they got rid of surfing/made it way slower?
I would be way more pissed about this if Xonotic didn’t exist, that was one of the few spontaneous aspects of CS that I found fun to explore.
Cethin@lemmy.zip 13 hours ago
I don’t think they got rid of it or made it slower. They did introduce a bug where you randomly stop when sliding IIRC. They’ve “fixed” this bug multiple times now, but it never actually fixed it. It could be actually fixed now for all I know, but I remember hearing that surf in CS2 is practically dead because it’s bugged.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 days ago
They keep finding innovative new ways of removing skill from the game and making more shit up to RNG.
That’s why I quit playing.
Moonguide@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
Think the biggest innovation they did for csgo was molotovs, and for cs2 was smokes being affected by bullets and explosions. Other than that, I think it’s been largely the same.
Though do keep in mind, I have about 30h across source, csgo, and 2 combined; odds are I missed stuff.
Midnitte@beehaw.org 2 days ago
Missing all of the fun custom maps people made, like surf, gun game, glass, think there was some zombie game mode where Ts were Zombies
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 13 hours ago
The Minigame maps in source days were crazy good!
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 days ago
Those still exist. Use the community server browser instead of matchmaking.
msage@programming.dev 1 day ago
I tried looking for some surf stuff in csgo, but it was all basic.
Back in 1.6 I played tons of surf maps, some very elaborate and massive, but in go all I could find was at best 10 seconds of basic waves.
I miss those days…
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
I am not saying I don’t understand there being a core competitive game that is meant to stay relatively unchanged like a sport… but CS2 doesn’t have destructible environments, it doesn’t have vehicles, it doesn’t have any innovation at all other than being more like a slot machine than the last Counter Strike which was basically the same as the Counter Strike before it.
A game this big I expect to have a core competitive very minimal core that stays relatively unchanged yes, but I also expect a bunch of more fun and more varied and changing stuff surrounding it that most players actually engage in. No not skins and shit, it makes me want to vomit even looking up that stuff and how many results you get for how to “invest” in CS skins (eeeeewww wtf?) I mean actual different gameplay with novel experiences to sustain and compliment the competitive unchanging core….
horse@feddit.org 14 hours ago
Ignoring all the monetisation, which is basically a pipeline into gambling addiction for kids.
Counter-Strike players largely don’t want major change. The reason people play it is because it hasn’t changed much in the last 30 years or so that it’s been a thing. I barely switch on my PC anymore these days, so my information is largely dated, but Valve does add things from time to time, besides skins: new guns and maps, minor alterations to the mechanics and ruleset, new game modes (most of which didn’t survive the transition to CS2 unfortunately), seasonal events, etc.
Bigger changes like vehicles and destruction would turn the game into something else entirely and even if they were only available in a side mode, I reckon Valve has numbers showing that not enough people would care enough to actually play it (like the Battle Royal mode, which I’m still salty they removed).
You could argue that Valve is doing the bare minimum to keep the game alive and generating revenue from the gambling mechanics and I’d probably agree, but also I don’t think the game needs to change at a faster pace.
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 5 hours ago
This all falls prey to the self fulfilling prophecy of only listening to your toxic competitive though.
Call Of Duty has a DIZZYING number of fun modes but it still has competitive Search & Destroy lobbies too, the only conflict here is in an actively hostile competitive scene treating any change even if it doesn’t effect the competitive modes as a threat to be dogpiled on.
Also, I refuse to ignore this in any conversation about Counter Strike, it is fucked up.
Cethin@lemmy.zip 13 hours ago
Honestly, I think that’s part of why it has lasted so long. None of what you listed are necessarily better. They’re just flashy. They would ruin the design of the game though. CS could have vehicles, and some custom maps did, but it doesn’t work to improve the game so it never became a part of the primary game.
The need to always do something flashy and new I think is a reason why so many modern FPSs suck. They don’t understand their game and ruin it with features that don’t improve it.
I say all this while my primary game for ~2 years is The Finals. It’s easily the most innovative shooter I’ve played in a decade or more. It has the best destruction I’ve seen in a game ever. However, they understood how it work with their game. They didn’t just do it to advertise it as a feature without it adding anything. It actively combines with the other parts of the game to make one cohesive thing.
Dunstabzugshaubitze@feddit.org 2 days ago
counter-strike at this point is pretty much it’s very own thing, if you change the game to much it won’t be counter-strike and a lot of people don’t play counter-strike to play a multiplayer shooter, they play it because its counter-strike, this makes it a pretty much ideal candidate to “just sell mtx with” and change the map pool a bit to keep the casual crowd happy.
cs itself evolved for a long time without any input by valve at all, the same way chess or modern soccer evolved without drastic changes.
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
You aren’t understanding my point, I specifically said I understand there being a competitive core that remains essentially unchanged.
What I am saying that is not nearly enough, it is lazy, you don’t have to change the core game to add more aspects to it, more modes and more content that compliments the competitive core.
Yeah and I played a bunch of chess when I was younger and got bored because it was the only good board game anyone would play with me. I stopped playing board games period for a decade or so and it took modern board games including modern abstracts to get me into board games again. Does that mean I saw absolutely everything there was to chess and that it needs to be updated now? No, but I am very much in the majority of people in feeling that chess is kind of boring after awhile, and if it was the only option to play with chess pieces and a chess board I just wouldn’t own a chess set which is why I don’t own a chess set…
I own Agricola, Concordia, Dominion, Spirit Island, Bonfire, 51st State and other complex modern strategy board games and enjoy them 1000x more than I ever would chess unless I was matched with someone precisely at my skill level.
Also… people do use soccer balls for all kinds of silly stuff? Soccer is surrounded by a vibrant culture of games, interaction and play, just because the core sport is a rigid form doesn’t mean the entirety of the scene is rigid like that…
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 days ago
The missing vehicles thing is a major one. Remember CS_Prodigy in 1.5/CS:S? Give the CTs back the APC.
mctoasterson@reddthat.com 1 day ago
“Blood on cs_siege” is still out there on YouTube to document the dangers of drunk APC driving.
warm@kbin.earth 2 days ago
CSGO was peak, before they added agent skins. Then competitive integrity was thrown out the window. CS2 actually downgraded a lot of the game, I'm still not sure it functions fully now.
They butchered community servers and don't seem interested in supporting that scene the same as in the past. So there's no "fun" until they give it to us. The game is just for siphoning money, more than it has been in the past. The entire industry is like that and new consumers are accustomed to it, so it's never going to change.