Oh, here comes the clown who thinks fertilized eggs are babies!
Comment on Abortion Rights: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver
Blamemeta@lemm.ee 2 years ago
Let me guess, he doesn’t think its murder?
ZILtoid1991@kbin.social 2 years ago
NightAuthor@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Yeah, I don’t see how they can see it so black and white if they don’t consider a firtilized egg to be a full living human.
I think anything else would necessitate conceding that it’s a complicated issue, with lots of grey area, which I don’t think any forced-birther I’ve talked to has conceded.
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Don’t kill the fertilized eggs! Unless the brown person carrying them doesn’t believe the way you want them to believe. Then go nuts.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
They definitely are beyond a “fertilized egg” multiple months into a pregnancy. And yes, they are humans, just at the early stage. You think a baby magically becomes human when it leaves the womb?
Seleni@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Have you actually looked at a fetus in different stages of growth? Because they’re not sentient, and not all that human-looking even. Just a parasite that may, one day, be a human.
If you mean super-late-stage, then at that point the abortion is a health issue, and you and your uninformed opinions getting in the way only cause more risk of death for the mother.
And what about ectopic pregnancy? Please don’t tell me you’re dumb enough to believe those are salvageable. If that happens, and an abortion isn’t carried out ASAP, they’re fatal.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
So would you be okay outlawing abortion after 25 weeks (when it very much does look like a baby) assuming there are no health risk to the mother?
Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Nope, after birth it is no longer dependant on the direct use of another person’s body in order to live.
Toastypickle@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Let me guess, you didn’t watch the clip where he explains it’s a complex issue that should be viewed from all angles and not just life and death. If you’re so worried about death then consider the women who’s lives are in danger because they have to endure a non viable pregnancy to term because a bunch of politicians have no concept of medical care.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Whats the point of bringing this up when you know full well you are okay with abortions in situations where the mothers life is not threatened
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 years ago
The mother’s life is not threatened if she is raped and a pregnancy results. Should she be forced to bring that fetus to term?
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
It’s an uncomfortable situation but I wouldn’t be opposed as long as there was a police report proving it and wasn’t an excuse to get out of unwanted pregnancies.
Ashyr@sh.itjust.works 2 years ago
Is your belief that life begins at conception religiously founded?
The Bible prescribes an abortion (which would be murdering an innocent bystander, if the fetus was a person) as the punishment for adultery.
Oddly, before 1980, there was no majority Christian consensus on when life began. When Roe v Wade dropped, the largest evangelical denomination called it, “a distinctly Catholic issue”.
For the vast majority of Christian history it was generally held that life began at the quickening, the first time the mother felt the baby kick. This was considered the moment of ensoulment, literally when the soul entered the body.
Unfortunately, due to the antisemitic influence of Rome hijacking Christianity, that’s a very Greek and neo-platonic view of when life began.
In Hebrew, spirit (ruach) means wind; the invisible force that brings life, the breath of God. Soul (naphesh) just means throat, it is the channel by which we breath. So as many ancient and modern Jews believe, as would the early christians, life begins at first breath.
Of course, we’re not bound to ancient views, which is why Roe v Wade determined viability outside the womb would be the standard point of protection, which is imminently reasonable.
You are free to believe that life begins at conception. This is an issue people have discussed and debated for as long as we’ve been alive.
You can’t believe that your view is explicitly taught by the Bible or is even the view of the majority of Christians for most of history.
The evangelical view of life beginning at conception began in the late 70’s as a political wedge issue that tested incredibly well with audiences so people like Jerry Falwell began beating the drum in order to build political clout.
Blamemeta@lemm.ee 2 years ago
I’m agnostic. I believe that a fetus has a right to life, same as anyone else. The situation is a bit complicated, sure, but the right to life is pretty basic.
Ashyr@sh.itjust.works 2 years ago
Then viability seems an eminently reasonable threshold. If you’re agnostic, there’s no intrinsic value to a clump of cells. If the fetus is capable of surviving on its own but can’t by virtue of being stuck in place it deserves protection.
Of course, when it’s threatening the life of the mother then even though there’s no malice or intent, it is legally justifiable to treat it as we would anyone else who would threaten a woman’s life.
Tyfud@lemmy.one 2 years ago
It has no life to have a right to until it’s born.
Go ahead and tell me about all the experiences you had in your mother’s womb. About the goals and aspirations you had before you came out. Tell me about your experiences, your emotional fortitude, hell, tell me anything at all about the time before you were born, from your perspective.
A fetus does not have a right to life, but the mother does.
Your views are getting real people with all their dreams, aspirations, goals, hopes, etc. killed, just so you can feel a warped sense of false moral superiority for a few minutes on the Internet.
Blamemeta@lemm.ee 2 years ago
The next time some lemmy user says no one is wanting 3rd trimester abortions, Im going to link your comment. Its not going to do anything but waste time, but its going to be funny.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Go ahead and tell me about all the experiences you had in your mother’s womb. About the goals and aspirations you had before you came out. Tell me about your experiences, your emotional fortitude, hell, tell me anything at all about the time before you were born, from your perspective.
This does not really prove any point. Should people with memory issues be killed too? They don’t remember any of their goals/aspirations/experiences, so they aren’t alive according to you. There is evidence that babies in the womb are affected by their experience in the womb.
A fetus does not have a right to life
Why not? You just make that claim without really backing it up.
Your views are getting real people with all their dreams, aspirations, goals, hopes, etc. killed, just so you can feel a warped sense of false moral superiority for a few minutes on the Internet.
People are allowed to give their opinions on a topic. Maybe you argue online for a feeling of superiority but that doesn’t mean everyone does.
Kemwer@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Everyone also has the fundamental right to bodily autonomy. You can’t even force someone to do something as harmless as donate their blood, but somehow some people feel it’s just fine to hold a woman hostage and force her to host another living being, even if that might cause them terrible health issues or even their deaths… even if the “woman” in question is a child victim of sexual abuse… even if they don’t give a rat’s ass what happens to that child after birth, and will just being another child to be abused and left to die.
If you cared about the right to life, you would support the right to women and their doctors to make the best choices for their lives, and the lives of the children that will still need to be cared AFTER being born. Sorry, but you don’t care about fetuses, you care about controlling women.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Should women who are raped be forced to bring a resulting pregnancy to term?
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 years ago
no one thinks it’s murder. not even you. you’re just lying to troll people (or because you hate women)
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
I genuinely do believe it is killing a human. The whole “its just a clump of cells!” is a reductionist argument that serves no purpose. We are all clumps of cells. I’m not religious either.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 years ago
No, it’s not reductionist. It’s exactly what it is. What is reductionist is making it some kind of moral panic based on misinterpretation of religious text in order to force your perspective on others. The bible gives instructions on how to perform an abortion, and we know that abortion saves lives. Ectopic pregnancy, miscarriages, and other perfectly legitimate medical reasons are part of why abortion access is necessary and should be enshrined as female health care.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
I’m not religious at all. Even though I’m not religious, I think it’s still fine for me to speak out on things I view as wrong.
Ectopic pregnancy, miscarriages, and other perfectly legitimate medical reasons are part of why abortion access is necessary
I’m ok with abortion if the mothers life is directly at risk. I’m not ok with abortion being a backup birth control.
Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Yeah but killing a human in self defense is never murder.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
What if the baby is not threatening the life of the mother at all? How is it okay to kill in self defense in that instance?
At least you admit you are killing a human. That’s nice that you have gotten that far.
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 years ago
I’m afraid I dont believe you. Have you approached the FBI, your local DA, over these “murders”? Have you even called the police? Have you hired a private investigator? If I knew someone was murdered I’d do all of these things.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
I didn’t call them murders. Maybe try reading a bit more carefully.
pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 2 years ago
Good news, it’s not.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
whats not?
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 2 years ago
I’m for small government and personal rights. So I’m pro choice, because I don’t think big government should be forcing their people to do things they don’t want.
Blamemeta@lemm.ee 2 years ago
Im also for small government and personal rights. But I firmly believe murder should be a crime.
Tyfud@lemmy.one 2 years ago
That’s not what murder is, and you know it.
Stop it with this weak rhetoric.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Why is it not murder? You are killing a living human
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 2 years ago
“small government” meaning “I decide what is murder, your opinions and beliefs don’t matter, and I’m not willing to hear your arguments against it”.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 years ago
Fuck off guy. You aren’t changing anyone’s minds on Lemmy.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 years ago
We better arrest every woman who has a miscarriage under suspicion of murder.
Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Abortion is self defense, never murder.
BigMacHole@lemm.ee 2 years ago
Whenever a woman has her period it should be considered murder and her IMPRISONED!
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 2 years ago
Sam when a man jacks off.
TheOgreChef@lemmy.world 2 years ago
When a man does it, it’s genocide. Trial would have to take place at The Hague first.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
sperm is not a human life under any definition of the word. A fertilized egg 6 months into development almost certainly is.
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 2 years ago
My religion says that it is, and it was written by my God herself. There’s no higher definition.
Kbobabob@lemmy.world 2 years ago
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
If there was a chick inside there, it certainly would be a chicken, no?
tweeks@feddit.nl 2 years ago
A bunch of cells in rapid development with the potential to become a human being. Murder is a strong term, but in a broad sense I don’t think your insinuation is wrong per se.
This might be getting a bit controversial, but for the sake of discussion:
The important thing here is, do you mind if that potential for life is taken away. In this case we place priority on the human being that eventually has to dedicate her life to that potential. And is it more important than the already existing, conscious human being that has to dedicate her life to it (especially when there are physical / mental problems involved)?
It comes down to why we live, and why must we live? Personally I believe trying to avoid (potential of) suffering is a more reasonable concept.
If one gives life to a baby, you give it a potential for suffering which it otherwise does not. I’d say the ways one can suffer is of a greater weight than to be happy. So if you go that route of creating life, you better be damn confident that you are in a good position to do that.
In that philosophy ‘murdering’ a potential with a large chance of creating more suffering to the collective is not that bad. One might view this differently when the being is conscious and might actively not want to die, as we bring the complexity of individual human choice to the table and what worth that has; but I think we can agree that is not applicable on the potential of a human being discussed in this topic.
agent_flounder@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Do you think it is? Why?
Blamemeta@lemm.ee 2 years ago
Because the fetus is a person.
JackOfAllTraits@lemmy.world 2 years ago
As an actual father-in-waiting - no it is not. That little thing is going to be a human, maybe. Not a human yet.
cricket98@lemmy.world 2 years ago
How is it not a human in the early developmental stages? This reads as cope to me tbh. A baby doesn’t magically become human when it comes out of a vagina. A baby 6 months into pregnancy has pretty much all their body parts. They have a brain, a nervous system, arms/legs, etc
Snowpix@lemmy.ca 2 years ago
Do you consider it mass murder when you ejaculate? All that sperm can be considered people by your logic. Is a woman having her period or a miscarriage murder? After all, all of those cells or dead fetuses she’s purging are clearly people. If a fetus, which is a parasitic clump of cells that isn’t conscious and depends on the host to survive, is considered a person, then by your logic, so is sperm, eggs, miscarried fetuses, and even cancer.
Blamemeta@lemm.ee 2 years ago
Why do leftists keep asking that? At first, I thought it was just a one-off dumbass, but now its way past that point.
And sperm are not fetuses.
SlopppyEngineer@discuss.tchncs.de 2 years ago
“We have to protect all life!” he said and throws another piece of former cow on the barbecue.
ZeroCool@feddit.ch 2 years ago
Correct, he’s not an idiot.