Anarchy is explicitly against “profits”.
Comment on Anon has a problem with Bioshock
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
My take on Bioshock is people became mutants and started killing each other because there were no laws or regulations aside from "you can't stop others from profiting." It was legal for them to become mutants. It was legal for them to weaponize and arm themselves before the inevitable revolution / civil war of Rapture. The closest thing to a law enforcer was the big daddy and he does NOTHING about the hordes of cannibalistic telepathic monsters. You know why? Because there are no laws against what they're doing, the daddy was only made to protect the little sisters who produce profit for Fontaine.
Bioshock is steampunk scifi but it's also anarchism in it's truest form. People built whatever they liked, and they destroyed whatever they liked, and when violently mutating psychoactive drugs were introduced the latter succeeded over the former.
A_cook_not_a_chef@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
ComfortableRaspberry@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
And it doesn’t mean that there are no rules but not rulers.
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
Rules require enforcement which requires people coming together to form a consensus and outfitting and maintaining the livelihood of enforcers, which is NOT ANARCHY.
ComfortableRaspberry@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
No, what you describe is chaos. Anarchy means there are no rulers. People rule themselves and are also looking out for each other thus enforcing the minimum set of rules that are necessary to have a stable security. Rules can come from a consensus, yes.
A current example is the anarchist punk camp on Sylt where it was decided that dogs need to be on a leash when your are in the camp. If someone sees someone with a dig without a leash, they tell them of the decision and why it was made and that’s it.
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
Who is gonna stop them?
communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz 3 weeks ago
usually anarchists advocate for elected or rotational positions for policing.
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
What happens when it comes somebody's turn and they decide to stay in charge permanently? Well obviously the loss of the social contract means that individual isn't protected anymore, either, so they kill him. Just like the splicers tried to kill Andrew Ryan.
OrganicMustard@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Core ideas of anarchism: mutual aid, no hierarchies, stateless moneyless society, free association.
This person: anarchism is capitalism without rules
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
You're probably thinking Anarcho-Communism or some other convoluted trite. Dictionaries all say the same thing: no laws, no leader, no order.
OrganicMustard@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Surely you know better after skimming through a dictionary than me, an anarchist that has read dozens of anarchist theory books
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
Even antivaxxers have their own books, your theories mean nothing in the face of the consensus.
DonPiano@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
That’s not anarchism you’re describing, maybe you’re thinking of "anarcho"capitalism?
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
Anarchy:
No order, no laws, no rulers.
Obviously the existence of Ryan and the city council defeats that ideal, but that was only true before the fall.
DonPiano@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
Anarchism is full of rules and laws, though. Arguably, one aspect of anarchism is replacing rulers with rules as far as possible, but that’s possibly a contentious phrasing.
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
And when your rules conflict with your neighbor's rules? I guess they'll just have to murder you. Just like Rapture.
chuckleslord@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The issue is that finitebanjo has conflated the two different meanings of Anarchy. Donpiano is talking about contemporary anarchism, a mode of governance without authority structures. One that argues that hierarchies and centralized power is the root of most of humanities ails. Governance is still performed, but it’s on an individual level between peers where each member of the group is an active part in decision making.
Finitebanjo is talking about anarchy, the state of lawlessness that arises when the state fails to perform its governing duties. Most associated with riots and looting. The problem is when they call it “anarchism in it’s truest form”, they’re conflating the state of lawlessness when the state abandons an area with a system of governance. It is not the same thing.
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
Contemporary Anarchism doesn't actually exist even in fiction, though, unless there is only one person because otherwise there will always be disputes between the people until a centralized power structure forms.
I thank you for trying to mediate but both me and my opponents know exactly what I am saying.
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
rofl Bioshock is explicitly NOT anarchism in its truest form… Big Daddys existing at all disproves that by itself, let alone Ryan’s ruling of the city.
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
Big Daddies were owned by Fontaine, not by Ryan. Fontaine and Ryan were literally opposing faction leaders in the Rapture civil war.
I even mentioned how Big Daddies do NOTHING to stop the hordes of cannibals because they're not there to enforce any laws.
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They are still a de-facto authority regardless of their purpose. De-facto authority is by definition NOT anarchism.
aaaa@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
BioShock 2 revealed that Andrew Ryan had a secret prison to throw people into when they disrupted his control over the city. And more than once he decided he would burn it all down rather than let someone else win.
It may have masqueraded as anarchy, but the system was still rigged from the start
SamuraiBeandog@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
And this, intentionally or not, is the real message. There’s no such thing as a real meritocracy, the system is always rigged in favor of the people who created it.
finitebanjo@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
That's fair, and to add onto that Ryan did have a self destruct button in his office that would wipe out the whole city.
On the other hand, though, Fontaine and Lamb both rose to power despite Ryan's head start on authoritarianism.