Comment on flowers for the lost

SomethingBlack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

• 9point6@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Crash test dummies test the impact of vehicle accidents on human bodies. While more men than women are injured in vehicle accidents, they are more frequently involved in them in the first place. Women are 17% more likely than men to die in the event of a car crash, based on university studies in the US, and 73% more likely to sustain serious injuries in a front-end collision (Invisible Women, p186). In the world of crash test dummies, ‘human body’ has really meant ‘male body’; the first anatomically correct female crash test dummy was only created in 2022.

  www.theactuary.com/2023/…/when-human-isnt-female

  Before intervention

  17% more dead women than men 73% more injured women than men When women are in fewer crashes overall

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  • SomethingBlack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I appreciate your effort to find that data but it doesn’t really address any of my original questions.

    Also, from what you’ve quoted at least, there is no differentiation between drivers vs passengers.

    Your data absolutely shows there is a problem, it just doesn’t show that the problem is the lack of an “anatomically correct female crash test dummy”.

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    • 9point6@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I don’t think whether they’re driving or not is a meaningful distinction at this level, people should be expected to sit in any of the seats of a car, so I’m making the fairly safe assumption they put dummies in various different seating arrangements.

      The stats apparently originate from the US government, so it’s going to be a pretty big sample size that should average out any differences in seating position.

      I can’t seem to see any conclusive after stats as the product was only introduced to the market a couple of years ago, I guess manufacturers need to buy these and then use them in their in progress designs. Cars on the market that have used these dummies during design are probably only new designs sold in the past year or so.

      I can’t seem to find it with a quick search, but I vaguely remember reading about this when it was new a couple of years ago, and there’s a correlation with male safety improving with advances in the crash test process that aren’t reflected equivalently with women’s safety. But maybe take that with a pinch of salt unless you can actually find the source

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      • ByteJunk@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I don’t think whether they’re driving or not is a meaningful distinction at this level But it does. For example, if the driver seat offers better protection than the rest of the car, and women are more often than men in one of the other seats, it would explain the results and the dummy doesn’t add much.

        But if the fatality rate for women in the front passenger seat, for example, is the same as for men in that same seat, that’s were probably having an “anatomically correct female crash test dummy” can be very helpful in understanding why these crashes are killing more women than men.

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      • SomethingBlack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        so I’m making the fairly safe assumption they put dummies in various different seating arrangements

        The source doesn’t use data from crash test dummies but from real life crashes. So we can’t take seating arrangements for granted if it could meaningfully effect the numbers.

        The stats apparently originate from the US government, so it’s going to be a pretty big sample size that should average out any differences in seating position.

        The sample size is irrelevant if cultural factors exist that could skew the results. Cultural factors like men are more commonly taxi/Uber/bus drivers, men are more likely to drive with their partner as a passenger than the inverse, etc.

        I don’t think there are really any conclusive after stats as the product was only introduced to the market a couple of years ago

        That’s a fair point, I don’t expect there would be enough data for anything conclusive.

        there’s a correlation with male safety improving with advances in the crash test process that aren’t reflected equivalently with women’s safety

        That would be an interesting read. I’ll have a look for it.

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  • theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    One reason male crash test dummies are not representative of female vehicle occupants in an accident is that seatbelts do not sit in the correct position on female bodies, because of their breasts. This has resulted in a system of safety testing, and by extension car design, that favours male safety over female safety. This, combined with the higher number of car accidents involving men, has created a data gap that masks the reality of vehicle safety for females.

    This is the only reasoning provided in that entire article

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• Taleya@aussie.zone ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  First thing that springs to mind is the chest strap on a seatbelt interacting with boobs

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• YaDownWitCPP@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  “An anatomically correct female crash test dummy is a test device designed to more accurately represent the body shape and dimensions of women, particularly in areas like the pelvis and upper chest, which are more vulnerable in car crashes. These dummies, unlike the older scaled-down male dummies, incorporate features like a female-shaped pelvis, breasts, and a lower center of gravity to better assess how different car safety features affect female occupants.”

  -Google AI Overview

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  • SomethingBlack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Ok, I hadn’t considered the differently shaped pelvis and rib cage so I’ll concede that it makes sense.

    Even still, to my mind (again, not educated in this area) the breasts themselves are not going to be a factor in terms of a car crash assuming seatbelts are correctly worn

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    • RebekahWSD@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Except they would be? Having breasts, especially large ones, changes where the seat belt sits. It can not be flat against the chest. Generally either is above the tits cutting into your throat, or underneath them doing…poorly as a restraint. Or maybe attempting to cut them in half but not doing well because bras won’t let that happen.

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      • SomethingBlack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I was going to say there’s also the option of in-between but that is dependant on clothing, but you beat me to it 😅

        You’ve convinced me that it’s reasonable that it could effect the outcome. But in that case, we’re averaging out a large variance in size, which as you said (and I agree) could change the outcome dramatically.

        This was my original problem with the “anatomically correct” part of the statement. There is no “anatomically correct” male or female, only approximations. This effectively excludes people at the extremes of physical characteristics from these safety tests

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• Taalnazi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Do those also account for pregnant people (masc, fem and enby)?

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