This is why I find this stuff so bewildering, even Wikipedia says no one died in the square. It was hectic around Mudixi, with buses of soldiers being torched and the burnted bodies being strung up. People there were absolutely shot at and killed.
It was an insane week with a lot happening, many different groups with their own motives, and so many details unclear. It’s weird that anti China rhetoric insists on something that didn’t happen, pushing a false narrative that’s so easy to dispell and distracts from the real violence and politics of the time.
The point is that according to basically all reputable sources, they didnt die on Tianaman Square. They were ordered to leave the Square and did so. Then they were killed at other points in the city.
But of course, since the protests were on the Square and then the killings happened, most people simply condense it down to the inaccurate version of “killed at the square”.
“The massacre in the vicinity of, but not directly on Tiananmen Square” doesn’t have the same ring to it. The concrete location might also not matter that much in the grand scheme of things
The Clearing the Square section recounts the timeline of the military entering the square and it being totally empty by 6am. I guess you could count the three soldiers killed by the crowd, but that’s not what most people mean.
The Chinese Red Cross had given a figure of 2,600 deaths but later denied having given such a figure.[16][17] The Swiss Ambassador had estimated 2,700.[18] Nicholas D. Kristof of The New York Times wrote on 21 June that "it seems plausible that about a dozen soldiers and policemen were killed, along with 400 to 800 civilians.
lol. Nicholas Kristof was in Beijing at the time, his contemporaneous article was critical of China and the CPC, but said “There is no massacre in Tiananmen Square, for example, although there is plenty of killing elsewhere.” The original article is paywalled, but here is a 2004 interview where he repeats that no one died in the square, and sticks to his death toll estimate of 300-800.
The Chinese Red Cross deny saying that, so I mean insert your own conspiracy for that one. No idea who the Swiss Ambassador was at the time, the reference is to a book.
While I agree that it is not known, saying that it’s the Tiananmen Square massacre is a relatively harmless simplification, as there were dead people nearby and they originally were there.
calamityjanitor@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
This is why I find this stuff so bewildering, even Wikipedia says no one died in the square. It was hectic around Mudixi, with buses of soldiers being torched and the burnted bodies being strung up. People there were absolutely shot at and killed.
It was an insane week with a lot happening, many different groups with their own motives, and so many details unclear. It’s weird that anti China rhetoric insists on something that didn’t happen, pushing a false narrative that’s so easy to dispell and distracts from the real violence and politics of the time.
cepelinas@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
For me wikipedia says that at least a few hundred died, can you show me where wikipedia said no one died?
Microw@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
The point is that according to basically all reputable sources, they didnt die on Tianaman Square. They were ordered to leave the Square and did so. Then they were killed at other points in the city.
But of course, since the protests were on the Square and then the killings happened, most people simply condense it down to the inaccurate version of “killed at the square”.
friendlymessage@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
“The massacre in the vicinity of, but not directly on Tiananmen Square” doesn’t have the same ring to it. The concrete location might also not matter that much in the grand scheme of things
calamityjanitor@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The Clearing the Square section recounts the timeline of the military entering the square and it being totally empty by 6am. I guess you could count the three soldiers killed by the crowd, but that’s not what most people mean.
isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
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calamityjanitor@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
lol. Nicholas Kristof was in Beijing at the time, his contemporaneous article was critical of China and the CPC, but said “There is no massacre in Tiananmen Square, for example, although there is plenty of killing elsewhere.” The original article is paywalled, but here is a 2004 interview where he repeats that no one died in the square, and sticks to his death toll estimate of 300-800.
The Chinese Red Cross deny saying that, so I mean insert your own conspiracy for that one. No idea who the Swiss Ambassador was at the time, the reference is to a book.
FireIced@lemmy.super.ynh.fr 3 weeks ago
While I agree that it is not known, saying that it’s the Tiananmen Square massacre is a relatively harmless simplification, as there were dead people nearby and they originally were there.
throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Soldiers are legitimate targets btw.
FireIced@lemmy.super.ynh.fr 3 weeks ago
Not all of them were. A great proportion wasn’t armed. But yea just saying “students got killed” is a bit of a lie by omission