Comment on [deleted]

• AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  They’re not wrong, their intent is good. Universal democracy sucks, we just haven’t found a better replacement for it yet, to paraphrase Churchill

  source

  • Comrade_Spood@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Everyone deserves the right to have power over themselves and things that affect them personally, no one deserves the right over others. Thats the issue. We insist on using methods of organization where there are those that govern and those to be governed.

    Also maybe Churchill isn’t the best person to be paraphrasing in this context considering how imperialistic and racist he was.

    source

    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      In case you didn’t realise, I’m not disagreeing with you. We’ve found out that limiting the vote is a bad thing, since it tends to lead to further suppression of the groups limited. I’m just pointing out they’re right to be frustrated too, since democracy isn’t perfect and has its very noticeable flaws.

      Also maybe Churchill isn’t the best person to be paraphrasing in this context considering how imperialistic and racist he was.

      Why does it matter who’s being paraphrased? The statement stands on its own, judge it on its own merits and not who came up with it.

      source

      • Comrade_Spood@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I recognize democracy (particularly democracy as we have it) sucks, and I do recognize you aren’t disagreeing with me about how we can’t take rights away. I just don’t like the idea of using the flaws of democracy as an excuse to take rights away from people. That is and was the strategy of fascists, authoritarians, and bigots.

        And I do believe being careful who we quote is important because “separating art from the artist” is a flawed and problematic rule. The only way you can separate “art” from the “artist” is by removing it from context, and that is a dangerous thing to do. For example if I wanted to make an anti-war point I wouldn’t use this quote,

        “Sir, it is true that republics have often been cradled in war, but more often they have met with a grave in that cradle. Peace is the interest, the policy, the nature of a popular Government. War may bring benefits to a few, but privation and loss are the lot of the many. An appeal to arms should be the last resort, and only by national rights or national honor can it be justified.”

        That is because this is a quote from Jefferson Davis. In the end my point is its probably not the right move to use a quote from a racist (Churchill) in response to a comment about how voter restriction is used by racists and bigots

        source
  • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Incorrect, fptp voting systems suck.

    source

    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      FPTP systems suck more. That’s not to say there’s no issues with better voting systems.

      source

      • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Yes the point was that the problem is the system design not the voters not being logical enough go watch star trek and follow Spock’s character development. 😂

        source
• Zagorath@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I agree that imposing a test to vote is a dangerous idea that should not be done.

  But it is worth stopping to consider that America’s history is not the only way things can be done. As everyone is hopefully aware by now, America has a uniquely bad democratic system. Rather than taking the sensible approach of having a single, nonpartisan, national electoral commission, they have each state and even county run elections according to their own rules. That allowed the implementation of extremely hard tests in predominantly black areas while white areas had easy or no tests. Something a unified national system could not do.

  source

  • Comrade_Spood@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I do not think centralizing control and decision making is the answer to that. What little decentralization America has rn is exactly what is protecting states like Maine from being completely in the pocket of fascists. The answer is further decentralization to the point people do not have power over others.

    source

    • Zagorath@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      There are very good cases for decentralisation. But if you’re going to have national elections whose results affect the entire country, the rules for them should be consistent and overseen by a nonpartisan national body, not by the highly partisan state legislatures of each state.

      source

      • Comrade_Spood@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I don’t believe we should have nation elections. I believe in horizontally organized systems, not hierarchical ones. So that seems to be the misunderstanding.

        source

        • -> View More Comments
• PunnyName@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  That crap was insanely convoluted. Perhaps he could still use a relatively simple test to ensure people have basic voting condition.

  Like, there are people alive who believe both parties are the same.

  source

  • Comrade_Spood@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Or you could juat make it so no one has the right to govern others. Then you wouldn’t have to take people’s rights away just cause they have beliefs different than yours, like you are suggesting. A problem in this world is people only seem to think about taking things away and punishing people to solve a problem, which doesn’t work.

    source

    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      So, anarchy? I’ve never heard a good explanation of how that would work on a widespread basis with billions of people.

      source

      • Comrade_Spood@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I’ve never seen someone explain how liberal democracy and capitalism can work on a large scale with billions of people. The issue with your logic though is it doesn’t need to. Billions of people do not need to work together all at the same time and don’t need to all be included on every plan, decision, or whatever. It doesn’t need to work on a scale larger than it is able to work at because the foundation of power originates from the bottom and stays there, it is organized horizontally. Hierarchy is what isn’t scaleable as it requires deeper and deeper layers of bureaucracy the more it grows.

        source

        • -> View More Comments
  • EmptySlime@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Then they should be educated out of those ignorant views, not have their rights restricted. What are you gonna do when some wannabe fascist decides that “basic voting condition” means believing that trans people don’t exist, that climate change is a hoax, and that the ultra-wealthy shouldn’t pay any taxes actually?

    source
  • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Slippery slope. Today it’s ‘Can you read?’, tomorrow it’s ‘Please explain the history of the Republican party in great detail’.

    source