I mean Sisko kind of does when he describes how the Bell riots have to take place before we unite as a planet and join the Federation
Comment on I liked Star Trek before it got woke. /s
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 2 months ago
No mebtion of space communism? The federation is Marxist
FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 2 months ago
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 months ago
Well
End-game socialist
volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 1 month ago
Real. Star trek isn’t woke, star trek is tankie
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Nah because they din’t glorify authoritarian violence
volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 1 month ago
Violence against the Borg is to be celebrated isn’t it?
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 month ago
That’s violence against authoritarians
mechoman444@lemmy.world 1 month ago
It’s actually not the federation is not Marxist or communist or socialist. These systems mentioned above are reliant on a monetary system that has scarcity. In the Star Trek universe scarcity has been removed from Earth there is no energy crisis everyone is fed transportation is instantaneous there’s nothing holding humanity back anymore there’s no poverty no starvation there’s no need to pursue financial gain anymore.
It’s not necessarily that everyone is equal so much as they are enlightened, there’s enough resource to keep everybody satisfied at a very high standard of living.
frezik@midwest.social 1 month ago
What? No. Marxism notes that scarcity wouldn’t be a thing with increasing industrialization. Indeed, it isn’t; we have plenty of resources to put a roof over everyone’s head and food in their belly. The base of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs can be completely covered, and the rest are not necessarily best fulfilled by mere material possessions. We could have the whole thing done in a year if society simply made the choice.
Now, I don’t think the Federation is Marxist, because we actually know very little about how the economy works at all. There’s contradictory information, it might depend on what time period or planet you’re talking about, and the writers have generally been uninterested in exploring the economy beyond superficial mentions.
mechoman444@lemmy.world 1 month ago
No. You’re just wrong and in every aspect.
Please refer to my responses further down in this thread.
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 month ago
When you are in post scarcity and everyone has everything they need and everyone works together ina government for mutual benefit that’s Marxist communism.
mechoman444@lemmy.world 1 month ago
No it’s not. (I have to be honest with you. You clearly have no clue what Marxism or communism is and yet you make a declarative statement that holds no water at all; why?)
While the Star Trek universe presents a post-scarcity society where money is largely obsolete and resources are distributed based on need, it diverges significantly from Karl Marx’s vision of communism. Marxist communism is fundamentally rooted in class struggle, revolution, and the eventual withering away of the state. The Star Trek Federation, however, remains highly structured, hierarchical, and governed by an institutionalized bureaucracy, notably Starfleet.
Moreover, technological advancements such as replicators eliminate material scarcity, a condition Marx never accounted for in his theories. Instead of a classless, stateless society emerging from historical struggle, Star Trek depicts a future where economic necessity is bypassed through technology, and individuals contribute based on personal fulfillment rather than class-driven labor dynamics.
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Marx never considered replicators much like he never considered sorcery as an option because he worked within the framework of the reality of his time. He was engaging in practical philosophy not fantasy which is why you see the focus on a class struggle as in his time.
The federation has no money and everyone has what they need according to their needs how isn’t that Marx’ ideal? If you could achieve socialism without revolution IRL he would have backed that but in reality you cannot hope for the privileged to give up their power.
Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 1 month ago
Yeah, however not all higher Maslows can be replicated, so obviously a fair bit of (popular or bureaucratic) meritocracy is incorporated into the redistribution and/or accesses to finite resources.
(But the main point is that if individuals have the option to pursue personal fulfilment that is a huge net plus for the society & everyone can get more out of their life & life within that society - imagine only having people in the food industry that fully enjoy the work or the huge selection of artists not pre-smothered by the daily grind for basic human needs.)
As you said, much data is missing, but I assume if I wanted a nicer office or an apparent with a better view I could get to it via contributing something of merit to society (eg a successful career, notable art contributions, maybe some hero stuff, etc).
How come the Picard real estates remained in the family though all those generations, I can’t fully explain. Tho there basically was a revolution (a world war, but same diff) that facilitated initial systematic changes (I assume a much decimated/irrelevant previously-elite class).