I too am confused about the correlation since I’ve never run into nazis playing 40k. Though to be fair I run slaaneshi chaos so I don’t think I’m in their demo of black templars.
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Soulg@sh.itjust.works 1 week agoIs there something about the tabletop portion of the community I don’t get? I just like the lore of the universe and if someone asked me if I was a nazi based on that I would be very confused.
Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.works 1 week ago
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 6 days ago
Warhammer 40k lore is on the level of racism and genetic determinism that resonates with nazibrain.
Every faction is a caricature and parody of some ideological concept where every member is obligated to live and die exactly as they’re supposed to.
Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.works 6 days ago
That’s not at all what I picked up from it. Could you give an example?
Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works 6 days ago
I mean, the space marines are genetically engineered soldiers who are locked into their roles they inherited from the primearch who’s genetic ancestry they are from, all of which were crafted based on the genetically superior being of the emperor. The eldar and orcs are literally bio-engineered weapons weapons of a race that were basically gods. The Tau have a lot of layers racial hierarchy, bio-engineering, and similar levels of eugenics stuff going on. The tyranids basically just consumer biomass to filter for genes that can benefit their race and incorporate the new genetic data. I mean, unless you didn’t pay any attention to the game lore, I really don’t know how you missed all this. Like, this is the core of the game lore.
Beyond that GW have straight said that each faction is a caricature of some form of extreme ideology. The imperium are basically theocratic space nazis, the orcs are pretty much how the classical empires, or something like that imperium, see less developed human groups, the barbaric hordes. Etc.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 6 days ago
The Imperium fanboys that only play with regular Space Marines, Custodes, and the like seem to be the demographic. If they complain about playing any xeno races, that can be a tip. Then again, some of them are just really autistic. It’s not an absolute guarantee, but yeah, the Imperium, understandably, attracts fascists.
Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.works 6 days ago
Ahh so the ones chasing the Roman empire feeling (that’s what I always got from custodes)
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 6 days ago
Little Kitten (The Captain General) is definitely not a fascist. Not sure about the rest of them, I’m pretty sure they went entirely around the bend once Big E got confined to the golden throne.
(This is fourth degree TTS warpfuckery)
kmaismith@lemm.ee 6 days ago
I feel like we probably need to address the fact that, unfortunately, the rigid fix rules based world views of society are inherently appealing to those on the spectrum. By no means does being autistic make one automatically tolerant or decent. Autistic people can vote, can endorse the violent oppression of those found disagreeable, can persuade others to their view, and be all manners of discriminatory.
I believe being on the spectrum may make it easier to open constructive dialog, but not always.
Being on the spectrum myself coming from a conservative upbringing, i am in no illusion of what kind of person i could have been. It has been countless peoples conflicting perspectives and patience that has lead me to (what i hope to) be fair and tolerant to other perspectives and backgrounds
sapient_cogbag@sh.itjust.works 5 days ago
I feel like we probably need to address the fact that, unfortunately, the rigid fix rules based world views of society are inherently appealing to those on the spectrum.
I really really don’t think this is true at all, even though I agree that autistic people can be bigoted/fascistic (just like there are members of any other minority group that can do this). The whole “rules” thing, in my experience as an autistic person, is more a consequence of wanting to know how things are likely to be ahead of time (predictability, rather than valuing of “rules” on the basis of authority imposing them and wanting to submit to some authority - though of course that can also be the case but its not an autism thing and you see it in non-autistic people as well). This is in combination with some people viewing “the rules” as a determination of fairness (which is also common in non autistic people nya).
This can appeal to some people’s ideas on ethics if they base them more on external structure rather than their own ideas of ethics. Which frankly seems rarer to me in autistic people than in non autistic people, though its still common.
Not that I’m saying autistic people can’t be bigots or fascists and it may well attach itself to some of these other concepts, but I really don’t think it appeals to autistic people as a whole more, whatsoever.
Combined with the fact that autistic people are very often treated horrendously by people around them due to arbitrary “social rules” and societal structures that punish people for being outside of the norm, and I think this is more likely to drive people away from supporting any system that is pro conformity (such as fascism). The other autistic people I talk with and am friends with (which is most of my friends xD nya) would suggest this, but of course that’s a very biased sample.
Furthermore, a larger proportion of autistic people call themselves lgbtq+. Theres a good chance a lot of this is related to social factors preventing non-autistic people from examining themselves or coming out or similar, but it remains a true effect on whether on not someone considers themselves lgbtq+. And I suspect that that itself acts as a strong push for more autistic people to oppose fascist and other conservative ideologies.
Definitely I used to be a big “”“rules follower”“” when I was younger, but it didn’t take me very long to realise that just because following “the rules” made certain things more predictable/cognitively-easy did not mean that the rules themselves or the system behind them was good in an ethical sense. Its made easier when rules hurt you or other people and when you can see the direct similarity between neurotypical social rules (which i often find ridiculous and I can’t actually even try-and-fail to smulate without it making me very depressed) and systemic rules.
I think the actual main danger of falling to the fascists for autistic people is similar to how it is for non-autistic people - social isolation and the false acceptance of fascist spaces like much of 4chan, usually layered in enough irony that you can pretend they don’t hate autistic people and anyone different from societal norms because they also act like they hate themselves (which they may actually do - this also happens with trans people on certain 4chan boards nya) - often the people getting involved with this hate themselves for being autistic and view themselves as being inferior (or sometimes you get the autistic supremacy people or people who do the “ironic” superiority thing when they actually hate themselves).
This can then of course act to make people “learn” bigotry via social normalisation and unexamined talking points which are often made up and always misleading, combined with the need for going along with it for pseudo-social-acceptance.
Personally I’ve seen that a lot of autistic people are capable of deconstructing this stuff (if raised with it) when pointed to enough contradictory information, talking to people of different perspectives (as you’ve experienced yourself), and/or also given acceptance via other groups. Or just finding the internal contradictions all on their own, which I know more than one person who has done that without even needing much external input. But again, I have a biased sample in who I interact with.
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 6 days ago
The Imperium of Man is overtly fascistic. Some really like this bit for all the wrong reasons
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 6 days ago
Think about it this way, if you joined WWII reenactment, you’ll mostly come across guys that have a general interest in WWII and will play the role of most factions (including Germany if needed). But you will also run into guys who are enthusiastically on the German side 90% and less happy playing anything else. That second guy is most likely a Nazi but tries to maintain plausible deniability
AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 5 days ago
“I only play black templars and krieg. No, what shovel meme?”
hmmmmmm
Comrade_Spood@slrpnk.net 2 days ago
I hate that nazis have adopted the DKoK. I love them because I really like the french inspired aspect of the design (like the trench coat) and I really love gasmasks. I got into 40k because of them and started an imperial guard army. But the amount of chuds that play them and the broader imperium grossed me out. Now I play chaos space marines (Red Corsairs (cause pirates) and Thousand Sons (cause I like magic and the drama)) and am gonna convert my imperial guard into chaos guard.
AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
I completely agree, that’s why I play krieg, to show that normal people like them too.
Canonical_Warlock@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 days ago
I always kind of feel like a bad leftist because I really like playing germany in Hearts of Iron. I can’t help it that germany has a monster industrial base and democratic countries are mechanically limited. I just like my jank tank battalions and some nice relaxing map painting but no other country has the industrial base for that without also being limited by the democratic ideology mechanics or having to go through the whole process to switch ideology.
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 5 days ago
I thino that’s more to do with Hearts of Iron not being fully realistic in Germany’s industrial capacity. All the memes and myths about them make them out to be far more capable than they really were in reality and HoI are matching that perception.
In reality, Germany’s success was largely due to huge risks and brinkmanship, and the Allies kept backing down and letting the Axis take bites out of them. There were many points in time where any allied response would have wiped out the German military, particularly their invasions Alsace-Lorraine and the Sudetenland. On top of that, all of the Axis had military doctrines based on fast, intense, and most importantly short campaigns where they could soly rely on stockpiles.
Once the Axis achieved some (admittedly large) successes, they started believing they could take on the Allies in a full scale attritional war, which is what eventually ground them to dust. They could have potentially won if they kept taking small bites, but that’s not the war that was fought.