wut
Comment on Par for the course
BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 1 month agoSure bud it’s all the women’s fault.
ngn@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
Comment on Par for the course
BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 1 month agoSure bud it’s all the women’s fault.
wut
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 month ago
There’s two different ways to read the previous poster’s point:
pahlimur@lemmy.world 1 month ago
The problem both of your opinions have is they ignore the baseline improved treatment straight white dudes like myself get. We get better treatment and preferential hiring just by existing. I’m not afraid to talk to anyone in the tiny sithole towns I go to for work. I’ve have so many people walk past my boss and talk to me because he wears a turban, or my other boss getting talked over because she is a women. These examples aren’t directly related to hiring, but you are blind if you don’t see the obvious advantages we have.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 month ago
I suggest you read the system described by the poster from feddit.nl just below, which just removes the kind of professionally irrelevant information (including gender, race and so on) from being in the candidate selection process.
Such systems are meant to removed descrimination (even subconscious one) rather than discriminating in the opposite direction. “Discriminating but the other way around” just preservs a mindset that people should be seen differently depending on gender or sexual orientation and, as I’ve observed first hand, yields environments which are even more sexist.
Having lived in both Britain (which apes a lot of things from the US) and The Netherlands, I can tell you that the latter country is way much more naturally equalitarian (gender-wise and even more so when it comes to sexual orientation) than the former.
The knee-jerk “this must be sexism” reaction to criticism of the “let’s keep treating people differently depending on the genetics they were born with” of the “anti-descrimination” systems in the Anglo-Saxon countries, in my view partly explains why in the decade and a half since I’ve left The Netherlands I’ve seen no improvement towards the much more natural gender and sexual-orientation equality of The Netherlands in either Britain or the US, quite the contrary.
I’m sorry but compared with what I’ve seen working in other countries the system you defend is deeply flawed and preserves the very architecture of judging people on their gender, sexual-orientation or race rather than actual personal knowledge and track record that the Fascists have.
Senal@programming.dev 1 month ago
emphasis mine.
They actually don’t do a terrible job either, but it’s not a blanket removal of bias.
More pertinent is that they only apply to the initial hiring phase, a lot of jobs have built in probation periods.
In addition, those systems do nothing at all to prevent workplace discrimination once the candidate has started.
As for the rest of your statement, that’s missing quite a few important points.
Your phrasing of “let’s keep treating people differently depending on the genetics they were born with” is itself incredibly misleading in it’s omissions.
Bigotry does exist yes, but most of these systems are supposed to be in place to counteract the inherent conscious and unconscious bias in the system, it’s closer to “Let’s try and lessen some of the harmful treatment people are already facing due to perceived differences”.
The difference between countries your seeing isn’t solely due to the perceived ineffectuality of the systems you are talking about, there is a huge difference in culture, economics, population and history that has a significant impact on how much these systems can help.
Let’s take a completely inoffensive analogy and say that both Britain and the Netherlands are dumpster(skip) fires.
The Netherlands is a very small 30L skip full of paper that is also on fire.
Britain is three of those large skips you get delivered on a lorry , all piled up on top of each other, filled with wood, doused in accelerant and set alight.
The anti-discrimination system is 3 full buckets of water.
Three buckets on the Netherlands will probably solve the problem.
Three buckets on Britain will do nothing but engender some metaphysical disdain from the fire.
I’m not defending the systems here, i’m saying you are presenting a situation in a way that doesn’t align with reality and then complaining that the results don’t match what you expect.
ngn@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
idk how someone can read it the second way
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 month ago
Some people genuinely have huge assumptions about the intellectual capability of women and their suitability for certain occupations - the “women are very emotional” used as excuse for not giving them certain responsibilities such as management positions is far too common, especially in countries were the main brand of sexism is the so-called “Benevolent Sexism” (called that not because it’s actually good but because it’s disguised as being for the protection of women) such as Britain.
Similarly there are prejudices about people with sexual orientations other than heterosexuality in the workplace, usually of the “they’ll make other people uncomfortable” kind.
Sadly, still today, far to many people genuinely think along such lines and some aren’t even aware that they’re doing it because their whole lives they’ve lived around people who do it so for them that’s the “normal” way of thinking.