utopiah
@utopiah@lemmy.world
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
I’m playing games at home. I’m running models at home (I linked in other similar answers to it) for benchmarking.
My point is that models are just like anything I bring into my home I try to only buy products that are manufactured properly. Someone else in this thread asked me about child labor for electronics and IMHO that was actually a good analogy. You here mention buying a microwave and that’s another good example.
Yes, if we do want to establish feedback in the supply chain, we must know how everything we rely on is made. It’s that simple.
There are already quite a few initiatives for that with e.g. coffee with Fair Trade Certification or ISO 14001, in electronics Fair Materials, etc.
The point being that there are already mechanisms for feedback in other fields and in ML there are already model cards with a
co2_eq_emissionsfield, so why couldn’t feedback also work in this field? - Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
That’s been addressed few times already so I let you check the history if you are actually curious.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
No one is saying training costs are negligible.
It’s literally what the person I initially asked said though, they said they don’t know and don’t care.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Yes indeed, yet my point is that we training models TODAY so if keep on not caring, then we do postpone the same problem, cf lemmy.world/post/30563785/17400518
Basically yes, use trained model today if you want but if you don’t set a trend then despite the undeniable ecological impact, there will be no corrective measure.
It’s not enough to just say “Oh well, it used a ton of energy. We MUST use it now.”
Anyway, my overall point was that training takes a ton of energy. I’m not asking your or OP or anyone else NOT to use such models. I’m solely pointing out that doing so without understand the process that lead to such models, including but not limited to energy for training, is naive at best.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Indeed, the argument is mostly for future usage and future models. The overall point being that assuming training costs are negligible is either naive or showing that one does not care much for the environment.
From a business perspective, if I’m Microsoft or OpenAI, and I see a trend to prioritize models that minimize training costs, or even that users are avoiding costly to train model, I will adapt to it. On the other hand if I see nobody cares for that, or that even building more data center drives the value up, I will build bigger models regardless of usage or energy cost.
The point is that training is expensive and that pointing only to inference is like the Titanic going full speed ahead toward the iceberg saying how small it is. It is not small.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Right, my point is exactly that though, that OP by having just downloaded it might not realize the training costs. They might be low but on average they are quite high, at least relative to fine-tuning or inference. So my question was precisely to highlight that running locally while not knowing the training cost is naive, ecologically speaking. They did clarify though that they do not care so that’s coherent for them. I’m insisting on that point because maybe others would think “Oh… I can run a model locally, then it’s not <<evil>>” so I’m trying to clarify (and please let me know if I’m wrong) that it is good for privacy but the upfront training cost are not insignificant and might lead some people to prefer NOT relying on very costly to train models and prefer others, or a even a totally different solution.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Results? I have no idea what you are talking about. I thought we were discussing the training cost (my initial question) and that the truckload was an analogy to argue that the impact from that upfront costs is spread among users.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Great point, I’so are you saying there is a certain threshold above which training is energetically useful but under which it is not, e.g. if training of a large model is used by 1 person, it is not sustainable but if 1 million people use it (assuming it’s done productively, not spam or scam) there it is fine?
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
I’ll assume you didn’t misread my question on purpose, I didn’t ask about inference, I asked about training.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
I specifically asked about the training part, not the fine tuning but thanks to clarifying.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
I see. Well, I checked your post history because I thought “Heck, they sound smart, maybe I’m the problem.” and my conclusion based on the floral language you often use with others is that you are clearly provoking on purpose.
Unfortunately I don’t have the luxury of time to argue this way so I’ll just block you, this way we won’t have to interact in the future.
Take care and may we never speak again.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
You know what, again maybe I’m misreading you.
If you do want to help, do try with me to answer the question. I did give a path to the person initially mentioning the Model Card. Maybe you are aware of that but just in cased a Model Card is basic meta-data about a model, cf huggingface.co/docs/hub/model-cards
Some of them do mention CO2 equivalent, see huggingface.co/docs/hub/model-cards-co2 so here I don’t know which model they used but maybe finding a way have CO2 equivalent for the most popular models, e.g DeepSeek, and some equivalent (they mentioned not driving a car) would help us all grasping at least some of the impact.
What do you think?
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Please, do whatever you want to protect the environment you cherish. My point though was literally asking somebody who did point a better way to do it if they were aware of all the costs of their solution. If you missed it, their answer was clear : they do not know and they do not care. I was not suggesting activism, solely genuinely wondering if they actually understood the impact of the alternative they showcased. Honestly, just do whatever you can.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Apologies for my sarcastic answer, I did actually search for that a little while ago so I do assume most people do know but that’s incorrect. The most useful tool I know of would probably be www.aspi.org.au/…/mapping-chinas-tech-giants/
Let me know if you are looking for something more precise. I know of few other tools which do help better understand who builds what and how, for electronics but other products too.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
FWIW the person I asked did reply, they don’t care : lemmy.world/post/30563785/17397024
Hope it helps.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Straw-hat much or just learning about logistics and sourcing in our globalized supply chain?
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Feel free to explain the down votes.
If it wasn’t clear the my point was that self hosting addresses mostly privacy for the user but that is only one dimension addressed. It does not necessarily address the ecological impact. I was honestly hoping this community to care more.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Don’t know. Don’t really care honestly […] offset by the fact that I don’t and never will drive.
That’s some strange logic. Either you do know and you can estimate that the offset will indeed “balance it out” or you don’t then you can’t say one way or the other.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Your face being outside isn’t your “facial data”. It has to at least have that image, sure, in good enough quality, easy enough, linked to any piece of your identity, e.g. name or security number. If you just walk around and people take photo of your face, they don’t have your “facial data”. That’s the entire reason why reverse image search and similar services exist. It is NOT an easy problem technically speaking.
- Comment on AI Training Slop 2 weeks ago:
Just curious, do you know even as a rough estimation (maybe via the model card) how much energy was used to train the initial model and if so how do you believe it was done so in an ecologically justifiable way?
- Comment on DOOM: The Dark Ages Has Reportedly Sold Less Than 1 Million Copies 3 weeks ago:
Thanks for taking the time to check, blocked them.
- Comment on DOOM: The Dark Ages Has Reportedly Sold Less Than 1 Million Copies 3 weeks ago:
up against Expedition 33
I mean… I don’t play Doom due to DRM but also to be fair Expedition 33 is “just” 40ish hours whereas Doom is (check notes) less than 20hrs to complete? WTH. Nope.
- Comment on DOOM: The Dark Ages Has Reportedly Sold Less Than 1 Million Copies 3 weeks ago:
That, unfortunately www.404media.co/doom-the-dark-ages-drm-is-locking…
For the bigger picture www.defectivebydesign.org
- Comment on DOOM: The Dark Ages Has Reportedly Sold Less Than 1 Million Copies 3 weeks ago:
Well “new” is arguable.
- Comment on Comfy cozy 3 weeks ago:
I’m not sure I get it, is the joke colonialism?
- Comment on It do be like that sometimes 5 weeks ago:
… and yet, you fall right into their trap!
It seems like you are talking past each other, thus validating their point. Talking is easy, getting understood seems to be much harder.
- Comment on Prices are out of control 5 weeks ago:
I’m not a doctor but my understanding of the topic is that it’s pretty clear : any soda is bad.
Sure, a Coke a week, in a cocktail or otherwise, does not matter much but AFAIK people who buy entire packs (as in the photo) drink sodas at every meal and that’s unhealthy over long term, no matter what brand or type of soda it is.
So assuming that’s a well known medical fact and people still do it, then one can say they do NOT care for their health, no?
- Comment on Prices are out of control 1 month ago:
Coke zero is worse for your health.
nobody who drinks Coke care for their health.
- Comment on How does this pic show that Elon Musk doesnt know SQL? 3 months ago:
100%
What’s fascinating is you can take pretty much ANY topic, beside scamming at scale because there he truly is a master, you have some knowledge about and see very fast that he has no fucking clue. From engineering to video game, the guy has no idea. Sure his entourage, paid or not, might actually be World expert about said topic, but not him. So obvious.
- Comment on BRB, need more cheese 4 months ago:
I bet it’s hard not be bourgeois while commenting on Lemmy.