Burnham to unveil £8.4bn nuclear submarine investment in major boost for UK defence

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• als@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  just what we need to lower the cost of living

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• ohulancutash@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  This is the Navy, not the army, and it’s in a very sorry state. At least half the fleet is laid up for maintenance, and what’s left isn’t exactly brilliant. The 2010 strategic review gutted military capability and now, as things are hotting up, there are Russian ships conducting live fire exercises in the channel.

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• wewbull@feddit.uk ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It’s Trident.

  Andy Burnham is expected to unveil on Thursday an £8.4bn investment for the UK’s next generation of nuclear submarines.

  Aimed at preparing Dreadnought-class boats for service by the 2030s, the nuclear-armed vessels are set to replace the current Vanguard-class and will be equipped to launch Trident 2 D5 ballistic missiles

  This is on top of £16B since the 2020 defence spending report, and £30-40B before that (Wikipedia is a bit fuzzy on some of it). This is sunk-cost spending (no pun intended). There’s no other option except cancel the program.

  …and none of it covers the missiles, which isn’t an independent system.

  We need to have much better government procurement oversight. Contract values need to be understood properly upfront. Bids are intentionally low, with companies knowing that once they’re “in” costs can go up and they’ll get paid. It’s a well understood strategy, but it continually happens.

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  • Flamekebab@piefed.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I really hate the whole “it’s gone over budget” thing. If the budget doesn’t mean anything then why even have it?

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    • ohulancutash@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      In a long term scheme such as this, inflation and interest rates can wildly inflate the budget in unpredictable ways.

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    • wewbull@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      At least this is money primarily going to UK workers.

      Trident pisses me off because it buys missile we’re perfectly capable of designing and making ourselves. Relying on another nation for last resort national defence is bonkers if you have the choice.

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• addie@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Question is, who is this a deterrent against? Only other nuclear powers.

  Russia? We can just blow the shit out of them with conventional weapons, don’t need this.

  China? We’d fucking lose, a hundred-fold. Only deterrent against China is a very strong Europe, so let’s get back to the table.

  USA? These submarines carry their missiles, and they’ll just remote-disable the fucking things.

  France? They’ve got more nukes than we do, and honestly I can’t see us ever being at war with them again.

  Israel? Can’t see any global power actually taking them to task for their genocide.

  Conclusion: useless. On the basis that they’re a stupidly expensive left-over from the cold war, might as well cancel it, invest half of the money into conventional boom, and pocket the rest.

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  • crimson_iris@piefed.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Russia? We can just blow the shit out of them with conventional weapons, don’t need this.

    And what’s stopping them from escalating with nuclear weapons, if not a strategic nuclear deterrent? Also, you may be severely overestimating the conventional forces of the UK.

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  • Lenins_Dumbbell@lemmygrad.ml ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Ngl, Nukes off the table and no external support, Russia would steamroll the UK. Its not even funny how badly

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    • wewbull@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Isn’t that 2020 thinking?

      Ukraine has show how they are vulnerable.

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• mrdown@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Iran has the right to have nukes

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