Submitted 3 weeks ago by cuchi@startrek.website to startrek@startrek.website
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Sometimes the time travel confuse me, in this case, the new Borg queen pretend to create a new collective, now, the third season Borg queen is the old one, right?
So, what happend with one and the other collective? The new one affected the other one?
We are all confused. I feel they wrote themselves into a corner in PIC S2 and airlifted out of it without addressing the little unpainted corner they left behind. From a writers’ room perspective, it keeps their options open. From a fan POV it’s maddening. I don’t think it’s all that clear that the OG Borgs are dead after S3; they could return as well because they caused a subharmonic regression in the 500 Cochrane range that traveled back a transwarp corridor in time. Or something like that.
This is a Klingon makeup problem. For the longest time, it wasn’t addressed why the movie Klingons looked different from the TOS ones. Then ENT tried to fix this. And then DISCO came in and completely obliterated that fix. It doesn’t make sense. It cannot make sense. We mustn’t be so Vulcan about it.
Technically there was a throwaway comment in DS9 before the Enterprise episodes. I only mention it because they basically took the lines from that episode and combined them all into one story.
Trouble with Tribbles! Worf just says they don’t discuss it with outsiders. ENT does more of the heavy lifting if you ask me.
Jurati/Legion is part of “The Last Starship” comics, if you don’t mind stepping just a bit out of TV canon.
My kid and I had a related question, since we’re watching Starfleet Academy, and have seen Discovery, but not Picard. Are there still Borg in the 32nd century? How does Picard leave the Borg situation at the end of that series?
Spoilers galore for PIC
They created a spin-off Borgs collective with one of the main characters from S1 as the queen. They were powerful but looked to cooperate with Starfleet to deal with a big space anomaly. And the season ends and nobody really knows what’s up. Are they now the only Borgs? Is this a hard reset and it was all a dream? There are some timeline shenanigans that could explain away everything. And then S3 happens and we eventually find out the OG queen is hiding and masterminding a new plan that isn’t sending one cube to earth for a change. I think they never even question how the S2 Borgs fit into this. It is as though they never existed. What’s worse, they seemed to imply this old queen is the one Picard and Data defeated in First Contact and not the one that Janeway dealt with after that. Swiss cheese is remarkably dense compared to the story PIC tells. And it’s Star Trek. They will always find a way to expand on the Klingons. They’ll find a way to bring back the Borgs if they want to. What did the Burn do to whatever was left of them? That’s not an uninteresting question if you ask me. Their STSA-current facebook status? It’s complicated.
You have to watch out about that. Star Trek loves the Klingon like they love the Vulcans.
My impression is that the S3 Borg Collective/queen are the same ones from First Contact and Voyager. AFAICT the queen can exist in different bodies, which is why she was sometimes played by Alice Krige (in First Contact, “Endgame” and Picard) and sometimes Susanna Thompson (other Voyager eps). My impression for why she’s in such bad shape in Picard S3 is that it’s a direct result of what Janeway/future Janeway did in “Endgame”. So after Picard is over, I believe that original prime-timeline collective is extinct (barring any time travel shenanigans ofc), but the gentler kinder collective (which is led by the merger of Annie Wersching’s alternate timeline queen and Dr. Jurati) may very well still be around in the 32nd century.
The Borg have only been mentioned once in the 32nd century, unless there’s something I’m forgetting:
At the conference discussing the species behind the DMA, someone raises the possibility that they could have a collective intelligence. President Rillak says, “like the Borg?”
In my opinion, her tone is a little fearful. Make of that what you will!
I’m pretty sure in the second episode of Academy, Caleb tried to distract some guards by pretending there was a Borg behind them.
So active or not, it seems like they’re still at least thought of as threatening.
Probably they remain quiet, for now.
They are forgotten by the writers as quickly as they were invented…
The new collective is still at that portal or whatever, and we’re never going to find out what it is or ever see that collective again because the writers want us all to forget season Picard S2 ever happened.
At least Picard Season 2 predict ICE actions.
hard to say for now other than they both coexisted for a bit, but out of fiction i have a feeling they're just going to ignore the last two seasons of Picard altogether until a hypothetical Lower Decks spiritual successor where they'll somehow fix it with a throwaway line. speaking of Lower Decks, that's probably how they'll handle it's finale too considering the multiverse wormhole thing is conspiciously absent from the 32nd century
IcedRaktajino@startrek.website 3 weeks ago
They’re separate queens and separate collectives/cooperatives.
The Jurati Cooperative is, as of the end of Season 2, guarding the spatial anomaly that formed in the beginning of S2. They’re completely absent from the third season. Which I can understand since S3 was a fan-service reunion (which I loved).
The queen from S3 is the same one from VOY: Endgame and part of the same collective since they were first introduced in TNG.
AFIAK, no. The alternate timeline queen was not the same queen seen in S3 or elsewhere.
cuchi@startrek.website 3 weeks ago
So Jurati Cooperative is in a different timeline and both are intact or they are in the same universe?
ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 3 weeks ago
They are both in the “prime” Star Trek universe, but the “classic” Borg Collective is dead, leaving only Jurati’s splinter faction (as far as we know).