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its about mental maturity. to ignore that is to highlight your own inability to act as a mature adult.
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Submitted 6 months ago by TrenGoblin@lemmy.ca to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
Comments
originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 6 months ago
TrenGoblin@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
[deleted]EleventhHour@lemmy.world 6 months ago
No, you’re talking About ephobephilia, which is fucking kids. It’s even in the title of your post and in the comment of your post if you weren’t talking about fucking kids, you wouldn’t have mentioned it.
AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today 6 months ago
If you’re 25+ and want to have a sexual relationship with someone that’s 18, it means that you’re an immature adult yes, and it also means that you’re probably attracted to children.
EleventhHour@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Well, this just screams: “I want to fuck kids! WHY WONT YOU LET ME FUCK KIDS!”
gross
TrenGoblin@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
But 18 and 19 year olds are not kids you idiot they are both legally considered an adult in most parts of the world. Obviously I would never have sex with 16 and 17 year old woman because they both considered minors which makes it morally wrong for me to have sex with them because I’m an adult.
5wim@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
Well, an assumed connection between legality and morality is perhaps part of the disconnect.
Having sex with 16 and 17 year olds is not morally wrong because they are legally considered minors and you an adult.
Having sex with 16 and 17 year olds is considered morally wrong, by some, because the state of their mental maturity is often far below that of an adult even 5 years older. Consider the biological “growth” of the human brain; having not fully developed, their behavioral maturity follows suit. This means their ability to reason, their ability to act in their own best interest, is less than your own. At a certain level of disparity, this imbalance is usually considered “taking advantage” of someone. Asking them to do things they have less an ability to understand than yourself starts to look a lot like coercion.
EleventhHour@lemmy.world 6 months ago
But 18 and 19 year olds are not kids you idiot they are both legally considered an adult in most parts of the world
But you’re still ignoring the huge difference in power dynamic. Unless you want that, in which case I can’t see how you could call that moral.
Obviously I would never have sex with 16 and 17 year old woman because they both considered minors which makes it morally wrong for me to have sex with them because I’m an adult.
Since you still struggle with the morality of the sexual power dynamics of having sexual relationships with those too young to understand the concept, it’s clear that it’s not any sense of morality stopping you— it’s the legality.
I have no doubt you’d fuck kids if you didn’t fear the legal consequences.
RippleEffect@lemm.ee 6 months ago
I kinda don’t want to respond since maybe I say something that is misconstrued, so let me preface by saying this: Please don’t fuck or molest teens.
I get the attraction since that’s the period human hormones go crazy, but that should fade over time in my opinion. As you get older that age group will appear more and more like what they are, kids. 18 is barely out of high school in most cases. You should also avoid being around them since proximity has an effect on attraction.
Development is complex so I understand there are maturity arguments that can be made on a case by case basis, at least in theory, but in practice, it’s just not worth it. More than likely you will hurt someone that thought they were mature but didn’t fully understand something. At worst you will ruin their life and your own.
isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
OP has no interest in getting genuine answers to their question, they simply want people to agree with them.
Their response will be something along the lines of “Well I don’t object to it” or “It’s legal so it’s not wrong”.
tal@lemmy.today 6 months ago
I think that arguments of the form “X is/isn’t moral” tend to be difficult to make. And with sexual social norms, particularly so.
In general, I think that most social norms related to sex are more-or-less arbitrary.
I have a really hard time imagining a society where across-the-board murder is simply acceptable functioning. It just creates too many issues for society to function. Maybe you could have dueling or something like that, the pater familias causing certain forms of infanticide in the Roman tradition, maybe some kinds of euthanasia, but some kind of restrictions are just required to have a society. You can’t find historical civilizations where it was just okay to outright do anyone else in.
But when it comes to sex, societies have had different views on polygamy, polygany, incest (of different forms), sex below certain different ages, homosexuality, bestiality, prostitution, pretty much you name it. Maybe there were some issues, that they created, but some society made it work all right.
But thing is, society teaches people a set of social norms, and I think that with sex, those tend to be axiomic. Like, someone who objects to bestiality probably isn’t going to say that they find bestiality to be wrong because it violates some other moral precept. It’s pretty unlikely that someone says “sex with sheep is problematic because it might lead to spread of prions-based disease”. They’re simply going to treat it wrong in-and-of-itself. It’s wrong because they’re taught that it is directly a social norm that it’s wrong.
If you think that something is wrong or undesirable because of some other consequence that it has, then maybe someone can try and make a case as to how it interacts with that consequence. But…you can’t really reason someone into a different set of values if the particular sex act is the root value there. If homosexuality is immoral because homosexuality is immoral, saying “homosexuality is moral” doesn’t do a whole point.
Maybe you can show inconsistency between two values that someone holds, and they’re put in a situation where they have to pick one or the other.
isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
(Age / 2) + 7 is your answer.
A 26 year old shouldn’t be with someone younger than 20.
This is a guideline, but it’s generally correct. Especially until around 25 for the youngest partner, the problem comes down to maturity and the potential power dynamics at play due to that lack of mental maturity.
TrenGoblin@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
[deleted]EleventhHour@lemmy.world 6 months ago
isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I think you’re stuck on the legal definition of an adult.
Some countries have people become adults at 16, some at 18 and some at 21. 18 is meaningless beyond the laws in place and the legal punishments given to those who break the laws.
Many other reprehensible acts are legal, such as firing people for their ethnicity or gender identity in the US, or running a payday loan scheme.
You need to look at it from the perspective of brain development and power dynamics rather than from a legal or subjective point of view.
Intercourse with someone below your level of mental maturity is morally reprehensible due to the mental harm it may cause to the younger person, and them being unable to consent properly due to the power dynamics of the older partner having more money, more maturity, more status, etc. The younger individual may become dependent on the more mature individual, further driving the negative power dynamic.
ClockNimble@lemmy.world 6 months ago
A 17 year old and an 18 year old are only a year apart in maturity. It’s essentially comparable to a 17 and 16 year old. 2 years apart starts to get gray as far as morality goes. I’m against 16 and 19, but i can imagine extremely remote cases where it might be acceptable, but that is stretching my objective capabilities. 16 and 20 is too far. As you get closer to 25 and the brain is fully developed, the margins get wider.
For instance, 18 and 22? That goes back to stretching it. 19 and 23? Back to morally Grey. 20 and 24? Fine.
Ephebophelia definitions are meant to cast a wide net to protect as many people as possible. Just get over it for societies greater good.
JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 6 months ago
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 6 months ago
Culture and law aside, I think the real fear is that there’s a power imbalance that makes it questionably consensual, if you actually have such a relationship.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Anytime I hear ‘it’s not pedophilia, it’s ephebophilia’ I just walk away from the conversation because it’s not going to get better.
TrenGoblin@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
EleventhHour@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Why do you want to fuck kids so bad? Why are you so determined to convince everyone that fucking kids is “moral” unless that’s what you want to do?