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Comment on Serious statement: I don't understand the argument that not voting for Harris was the morally correct thing to do, because of Gaza. Why does anyone believe this?

sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

If you have a particular ideological hang up revolving around the difference between explicit and implicit consent to be governed…

You can view yourself as morally correct for not voting for anyone whom you do not fully support.

Thus you have not given explicit consent to either candidate, or the voting system itself.

Its basically ‘Don’t blame me, I didn’t vote, therefore I am not responsible.’

Its the trolley problem, but you just walk away from both tracks and the lever, and then claim that you did not consciously act to cause any harm, therefore you are guiltless.

…

Unfortunately by this logic it does also mean that you give implicit consent to literally everything your government does if you do not speak out against everything it does that you don’t like, or take some explicit action to countermand.

…

It’s an extremely sophomoric, cowardly and irresponsible stance to take in a situation like this, but there is an underlying logic to it… its just that this logic is ridiculous and absurd.

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psivchaz@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
I think of it exactly in terms of the trolley problem. The whole premise is that if you do nothing (don’t vote) more people die. By flipping the lever, fewer people die but you’ve taken an action that leads directly to their deaths. The philosophical question isn’t just “is it better for fewer people to die” but “in pulling the lever, are you directly responsible for those deaths?”

My answer would be that inaction is itself an action. In this scenario, you have found yourself responsible either way. Suppose you pull the lever, though, to save as many lives as you can… Wouldn’t the ones who die as a result of this have loved ones that absolutely do blame you?

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- Zink@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  A wise man once said, If you choose not to decide, You still have made a choice
  
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roguetrick@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

Its the trolley problem, but you just walk away from both tracks and the lever, and then claim that you did not consciously act to cause any harm, therefore you are guiltless.

That’s the fucking point of the trolley problem. How can so many people get here and not fucking understand it’s supposed to present the dichotomy between utilitarianism and deontology. If you have a duty to not commit murder, and pulling a lever murders people, you can’t pull the lever. It’s a valid position.

If deontology is wrong, we should immediately round up every depressed person, kill them, and harvest their organs.

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- sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  If you are talking about deontology and utilitarianism from two to three hundred years ago…
  
  Maybe your characterizations are accurate.
  
  But uh, in more modern ethical theory…
  
  Both camps have realized that pure adherence to the older forms of these ideas leads to absurdities and moral prescriptions which do not broadly match actual empirical responses to hypothetical scenarios.
  
  As a result, most modern ethical theories are some kind of a hybrid of deontologic and utilitarian principles.
  
  Anyway, let me try to illustrate this with a 'hypothetical' ethical question:
  You have 300 dollars. This is your food budget for for 30 days. Say you only eat one meal a day, and if you do not eat at least one meal every 3 days, you will starve to death. An ethical meal, produced by well compensated and treated laborers, costs $40 dollars. A non ethical meal, produced by unpaid slave laborers in a far away land, who often die of exhaustion and exposure, costs $10 dollars. Both meals have equal nutritional value and tastiness. Does the deontologist decide that any level of harm to people they don’t know is permissible and eat 30 $10 dollar meals? Or do they decide no level of harm is permissible to others and buy only 7 $40 dollar meals and then starve? Or do they purchase some combination of $10 and $40 dollar meals so as to minimize permissible harm to themselves and others according to some kind of calculation? Is the deontologist in this third scenario not employing some kind of utilitarian calculation?
  
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