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Comment on Honey

dharmacurious@slrpnk.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Best friend’s a vegan who raises bees. He doesn’t clip wings or use smoke. From what I gather he basically just maintains their boxes, feeds them sugar when it’s too cold for em, and collects honey when it’s time. Someone is about to come along and say “he’s not a vegan. Sounds like a vegetarian” and then I’m going to think “sounds like you’re gatekeeping a lifestyle like it’s a religion, and not even all vegans who don’t use honey agree on whether or not a vegan can use honey” but I won’t, because I don’t wanna get wrapped up in the nonsense.

But either way, yes, some vegans do use honey. And some, like that theoretical commenter, don’t eat anything that casts a shadow.

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leftzero@lemmynsfw.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

don’t eat anything that casts a shadow

Anyone who doesn’t exclusively survive on naturally dried up lichen ain’t no real vegan in my book!

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- Sal@mander.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Hmm… Some lichen make use of orobatid mite labour in order to disperse the cells of their photobionts. Are those still ok?
  
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  - leftzero@lemmynsfw.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That’s why I specified naturally dried up. The mites will have moved to greener pastures, I mean lichens.
    
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cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Personally I’m not sure the gate keeping you’re observing is all that much of an issue. I think it’s useful to remember many vegans are also public advocates for veganism. It’s important to them that people generally know what they mean when they advocate for veganism.

However, the definition of all words are always in flux. It’s not uncommon to see people call themselves vegan when a more apt description of their lifestyle would be plant based, flexitarian, vegetarian, etc. As such, I think edge cases like your friend take on an outsized importance that goes beyond the morality of your friend eating honey.

Basically, the goal may not be the social exclusion of your friend which is what I think is usually the problematic aspect of gatekeeping.

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funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
also - does this distinction matter? Is someone who runs 100m dash vs an ultra marathon runner both runners? When I run for the bus I’m also running. Sonic the Hedgehog also runs. They have distinctions in context that make sense - but they are all running.

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littlewonder@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Beekeeping family here: who the fuck clips bee wings?

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- barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  People who don’t understand bees and think that the queen is ruling the hive – if the queen can’t swarm then they’re going to dispose of her and raise a new one. All you’re doing is weakening the hive without actually preventing it from swarming. You might even kill it off.
  
  You let them swarm, you let them get their rocks on, and you also have a nice property ready for them to settle back into.
  
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  - Klear@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I read that in Kerrigan’s voice.
    
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- dharmacurious@slrpnk.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Iunno, never personally seen it. Just heard about it online when I first started looking into beekeeping (which I ultimately did not take up).
  
  Still interested in doing it (the keeping not the clipping), if you have any advice on getting started for someone with like 18 dollars between paydays. Lol
  
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  - littlewonder@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’ll say many cities have a club that rents out supplies or even has club hives you can use to get started. Also, I don’t live in a huge city and I’ve seen used hives and frames for sale more than I thought I would, so it’s worth keeping an eye out for those as well.
    
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- WhiteOakBayou@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Takes forever to find the flight feathers on the little guys and it’s very intricate work.
  
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sukhmel@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

not even all vegans who don’t use honey agree on whether or not a vegan can use honey

Exactly this, veganism is ethical choice, and ethics is not science. You can’t ‘prove’ that something is acceptable, nor vice versa. There are guidelines and discussions but that’s pretty much it.

So this is really not about whether bees are animals or not.

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