What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture?
that’s bad. buying beans doesn’t fix it though.
Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone
naught@sh.itjust.works 2 months agoDo you think that animals have consciousness? Do they feel pain, fear? Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being? What about 1,000,000 of those beings? Would you butcher a toddler for meat? What about an animal with similar (or more) depth of emotion and cognition than that? Is it okay because they are other species? What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture? What about the impact on climate change? I think there are many valid moral arguments that you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave. I hope you give it some more thought
What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture?
that’s bad. buying beans doesn’t fix it though.
This is a strawman. No one is arguing buying beans fixes deforestation. However, if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry. If legume farming was destroying the rainforest, I’d have a problem with that too
If legume farming was destroying the rainforest,
turns out, a lot of the the deforested amazon is being used to grow soy.
This was the case, and is certainly problematic. Take it a step further – who or what is consuming that soy? Animal agriculture, by and large. Therefore this is an argument for veganism, or at least reducing consumption.
if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry.
but just being vegan doesn’t cause this to happen.
It’s simple economics. Less demand, less supply.
Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being?
i suppose that depends on circumstances.
you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave.
i am not. i have been fighting with vegans, primarily on issues of the environment, for i think 8 or 9 years now. i have heard about every argument (though i’m always excited to find a new one!), and i have not been convinced by any of them that i have a duty to be vegan.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
if you have an argument that it is immoral, make it. i don’t care for your interrogative style.
naught@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
I like to give people questions to ponder and explore. I think my arguments are very clear from the questions I have raised. Suffering of conscious beings is a negative thing. Particularly the egregious conditions in which we raise our “meat”. This isn’t even considering the horrible conditions that humans suffer working in and around the meat industry.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
if you don’t wan to construct an argument that’s fine, but the socratic method isn’t terribly convincing for me and many others.
naught@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
You can’t appreciate a philosophical argument on a philosophical issue? I suppose that can be valid. It seems to me you don’t want to consider the ideas I have raised in good faith
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
can you support this claim?
Enkers@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
There’s obviously no way to prove this sort of statement, however every conscious being I’ve asked has told me they don’t like suffering. Additionally, almost all conscious beings specifically go out of their way to avoid suffering. I personally find this evidence sufficiently convincing.
naught@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Can you supply a convincing argument for suffering? We are fully capable of living with much, much less meat production. Why should we continue to inflict pain on things which can experience it? It seems manifest to me