Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone

• commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  if you have an argument that it is immoral, make it. i don’t care for your interrogative style.

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  • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I like to give people questions to ponder and explore. I think my arguments are very clear from the questions I have raised. Suffering of conscious beings is a negative thing. Particularly the egregious conditions in which we raise our “meat”. This isn’t even considering the horrible conditions that humans suffer working in and around the meat industry.

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    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I like to give people questions to ponder and explore.

      if you don’t wan to construct an argument that’s fine, but the socratic method isn’t terribly convincing for me and many others.

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      • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        You can’t appreciate a philosophical argument on a philosophical issue? I suppose that can be valid. It seems to me you don’t want to consider the ideas I have raised in good faith

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    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Suffering of conscious beings is a negative thing.

      can you support this claim?

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      • Enkers@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        There’s obviously no way to prove this sort of statement, however every conscious being I’ve asked has told me they don’t like suffering. Additionally, almost all conscious beings specifically go out of their way to avoid suffering. I personally find this evidence sufficiently convincing.

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      • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Can you supply a convincing argument for suffering? We are fully capable of living with much, much less meat production. Why should we continue to inflict pain on things which can experience it? It seems manifest to me

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• commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture?

  that’s bad. buying beans doesn’t fix it though.

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  • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This is a strawman. No one is arguing buying beans fixes deforestation. However, if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry. If legume farming was destroying the rainforest, I’d have a problem with that too

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    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      If legume farming was destroying the rainforest,

      turns out, a lot of the the deforested amazon is being used to grow soy.

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      • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        This was the case, and is certainly problematic. Take it a step further – who or what is consuming that soy? Animal agriculture, by and large. Therefore this is an argument for veganism, or at least reducing consumption.

        greenpeace.org/…/amazon-rainforest-deforestation-…

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    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry.

      but just being vegan doesn’t cause this to happen.

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      • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        It’s simple economics. Less demand, less supply.

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• commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being?

  i suppose that depends on circumstances.

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• commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave.

  i am not. i have been fighting with vegans, primarily on issues of the environment, for i think 8 or 9 years now. i have heard about every argument (though i’m always excited to find a new one!), and i have not been convinced by any of them that i have a duty to be vegan.

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