Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone

• naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Do you think that animals have consciousness? Do they feel pain, fear? Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being? What about 1,000,000 of those beings? Would you butcher a toddler for meat? What about an animal with similar (or more) depth of emotion and cognition than that? Is it okay because they are other species? What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture? What about the impact on climate change? I think there are many valid moral arguments that you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave. I hope you give it some more thought

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  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    if you have an argument that it is immoral, make it. i don’t care for your interrogative style.

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    • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I like to give people questions to ponder and explore. I think my arguments are very clear from the questions I have raised. Suffering of conscious beings is a negative thing. Particularly the egregious conditions in which we raise our “meat”. This isn’t even considering the horrible conditions that humans suffer working in and around the meat industry.

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      • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I like to give people questions to ponder and explore.

        if you don’t wan to construct an argument that’s fine, but the socratic method isn’t terribly convincing for me and many others.

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      • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Suffering of conscious beings is a negative thing.

        can you support this claim?

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  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture?

    that’s bad. buying beans doesn’t fix it though.

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    • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      This is a strawman. No one is arguing buying beans fixes deforestation. However, if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry. If legume farming was destroying the rainforest, I’d have a problem with that too

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      • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        If legume farming was destroying the rainforest,

        turns out, a lot of the the deforested amazon is being used to grow soy.

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      • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry.

        but just being vegan doesn’t cause this to happen.

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  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being?

    i suppose that depends on circumstances.

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  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave.

    i am not. i have been fighting with vegans, primarily on issues of the environment, for i think 8 or 9 years now. i have heard about every argument (though i’m always excited to find a new one!), and i have not been convinced by any of them that i have a duty to be vegan.

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