Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone

• commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  i don’t need one. there is no reason for me to believe it’s immoral. it’s probably amoral.

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  • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Do you think that animals have consciousness? Do they feel pain, fear? Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being? What about 1,000,000 of those beings? Would you butcher a toddler for meat? What about an animal with similar (or more) depth of emotion and cognition than that? Is it okay because they are other species? What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture? What about the impact on climate change? I think there are many valid moral arguments that you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave. I hope you give it some more thought

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    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      if you have an argument that it is immoral, make it. i don’t care for your interrogative style.

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      • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I like to give people questions to ponder and explore. I think my arguments are very clear from the questions I have raised. Suffering of conscious beings is a negative thing. Particularly the egregious conditions in which we raise our “meat”. This isn’t even considering the horrible conditions that humans suffer working in and around the meat industry.

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    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture?

      that’s bad. buying beans doesn’t fix it though.

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      • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        This is a strawman. No one is arguing buying beans fixes deforestation. However, if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry. If legume farming was destroying the rainforest, I’d have a problem with that too

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    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being?

      i suppose that depends on circumstances.

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    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave.

      i am not. i have been fighting with vegans, primarily on issues of the environment, for i think 8 or 9 years now. i have heard about every argument (though i’m always excited to find a new one!), and i have not been convinced by any of them that i have a duty to be vegan.

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• joonazan@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I think it is funny to make this an ethics discussion when there is plenty of evidence that bacon and sausage cause digestive tract cancers. Meat is also pretty expensive unless heavily subsidized.

  I think the main focus should be on educating people that a healthy diet contains a very small amount of meat even though the meat industry has managed to make people think it should be in every meal.

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