It is time stolen from you as well. You only need to work a fraction of the time you do in order to cover your wages, the rest of the day is free profit for the Capitalist.
Comment on Get in the Hilux
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
It’s not time stolen from you as the work needs to be done either way, but it’s money stolen from you as you’re either underpaid or paying too much for what you’re buying.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
You’re ignoring that what you output from your work needs to be… Outputted? So the issue is that you make less than you deserve for the amount of work that you do… If you make 25$/h and it wealth got redistributed so you would make 100$/h it doesn’t mean you could work 10h instead of 40h, your employer would still need you to 40h (or close to it, maybe you would be motivated by the increase in salary and work faster but that’s speculations) to achieve the same result.
If unemployment was at 75% and wealth redistribution happened to quadruple salaries then we could say “Instead of having 25% of the population working 40h/week at 25$/h, we’ll have 100% of the population working 10h/week at 100$/h so in the end the people that are working already will be making the same annual salary” but that’s not the case.
trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Except a lot of people’s work output is kinda fucking pointless.
If we managed the way we worked better and didn’t have the mindset of work for works sake/for the sake of the rich, we could be working a lot less.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
I think Lemmy’s vision of productivity is skewed by the fact that there’s a lot of office workers on here…
notsofunnycomment@mander.xyz 2 months ago
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
You’re talking about something else entirely.
Rich people disappear, wealth is redistributed, somehow you guys think that building a house will suddenly take less work hours than it does at the moment? No it won’t, construction workers will be paid more to work just as many hours building that house, they won’t suddenly work 20h/week.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
I’m not ignoring anything. Commodities trend towards being sold at their Value, and since Value comes from Labor and Natural Resources, Capitalists necessarily pay Workers less than the Value they create. Ie, if a Worker creates $500 in Value per day yet is paid 15 dollars an hour for their 10 hours, this means they have made $350 in Value purely for the Capitalist. With their 50 dollars in Value per Hour created, they cover their wages in a mere 3 hours, rather than 10.
A similar process can be seen in Feudalism, though it was more distinct. In Feudalism, serfs covered rent, then produced for themselves. They were able to clearly see what has been taken. Capitalism advanced on this concept to obscure exploitation through the idea of wages, yet still they take profit via paying Workers less than the Value they create.
I recommend reading Wage Labor and Capital and following it up with Value, Price and Profit if you want further elaboration and proof of said concepts, and have a couple hours to spare.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
I’m talking about a separate issue! Even if rich people don’t exist anymore, something that takes 500h work hours to accomplish will still take 500h to accomplish, you won’t suddenly have to work less.
notsofunnycomment@mander.xyz 2 months ago
A lot of the work we do is effectively to satisfy the (constantly changing and growing) desires or the wealthy (or let’s say, the desires of the people who employ wage workers).
Simple example: labour productivity has grown with 70% since the 70s while real wages have stayed more or less the same. So half of that growth in output hasnt been going to workers.
umbrella@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
money is time
LoreleiSankTheShip@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
You are not only working to mentain a functional society, you are also working to constantly grow it (each year more stuff must be made, more money must be earned, more of everything) it and also to create a very big surplus for the rich. We also burn perfectly edible food, ruin perfectly wearable clothing and make electronic devices that intentionally break in a few years to get you to buy another one sooner just to get the 1% more money. If we didn’t do all that and they lived normal, non-luxury lives, everyone would have a lot more free time. If everyone worked only 20 hours a week, we’d make enough to sustain our society.
aski3252@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Also, most workers are so deeply alienated because they know that they aren’t working for themselves, they are working for someone else. Which is why most people simply stop giving a fuck at some point.
There is so much inefficiency because most who do the actual work don’t have much motivation to do a decent job, yet alone think about what they are doing because you simply get punished, or at least don’t get any reward, for thinking. And they people who (should) do the thinking often don’t have a clue as they live in a bubble.
And of course there is all the bullshit about shipping stuff across the world to do different stuff when it is completely unnecessesary…
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
If everyone was making more money demand would increase therefore people would need to work more, not less…
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It’s time stolen from you if you have to commute to your job.
It’s time stolen from you if a lot of your job is pointless busywork.
HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 2 months ago
it impairs the economy. More folks could hire people to do things. Remember there were milkmen and tv repair men at one point in time. You could hire someone to clean your house and they could hire someone to do their taxes. its amazing how an economy works when people have money to spend rather than hoard.
AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world 2 months ago
There were also icemen at one point. Then we invented refrigerators. Nobody seems to miss having a giant block of ice delivered to their house to keep the food we buy at the stores cold.
CrowAirbrush@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Fam, at my last job they had roughly 23h of activity for me per week. 17h of nothing to do and still having to stick around because i needed every penny to be able to pay my bills.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Anecdotal, plenty of jobs where downtime doesn’t exist.
zeekaran@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
For many jobs it is indeed stolen time www.smbc-comics.com/?id=4042
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Oh wow, a comic!
iAvicenna@lemmy.world 2 months ago
well if you got more money per hours of work or things were cheaper, you would probably work less
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
How many hours of work are necessary to build car? Does it suddenly take less just because the employees are paid more? No.
There are bullshit jobs around, but most of them aren’t.
iAvicenna@lemmy.world 2 months ago
no but people may work in shifts still getting the same total man hours in a company.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Unemployment is pretty low right now, where will you find the staff for that?
Varyk@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Very often the work does not need to get done, the work uses up a poorly paid employee’s entire work day to squeeze out an extra fraction of a percent of profit.
You’re right about money, but they are often stealing both time and money.
Johnny5@lemm.ee 2 months ago
See also: bullshit Jobs
www.goodreads.com/book/…/34466958-bullshit-jobs
Varyk@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
See exactly: bullshit jobs
PrimeMinisterKeyes@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I believe it was Marx who first observed that superfluous jobs, as well as unemployment, are inextricably linked to capitalism.
See also Marcuse, 1969:
Varyk@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Great quote. I’m sure people have been spying out bullshit jobs before the industrial revolution, though.
On call standing in the corner to present candied dates or wave palm fronds over the emperor was necessary only for the emperor to fool himself into thinking he was inherently more important than anyone else.
zeekaran@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
www.smbc-comics.com/?id=4042