Comment on Is there any real physical proof that Jesus christ ever existed?

• givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  A) yes there is.

  I don’t believe that, and since it’s impossible to show evidence something doesn’t exist, the people claiming evidence Jesus existed is gonna have to do some linking…

  that’s not the standard

  You mean evidence?

  Evidence isn’t the standard for things existing?

  What exactly is the standard in your mind for whether a historical figure existed?

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  • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Evidence isn’t the standard for things existing?

    What exactly is the standard in your mind for whether a historical figure existed?

    Hard evidence has never been the standard for proof that a historical figure existed. Corroborating records are. It’s great if you can find some hard evidence, but if that was the standard then most people in history wouldn’t have any historical proof of their existence. And even when there is a corpse, we still rely on burial records to be certain that the corpse is who we think it is.

    Like a third of the bible as well as several contemporary documents all point to the existence of a guy named something like Joshua (which we now translate as Jesus) who traveled around Palestine preaching and was crucified in around 33AD. There are plenty of historical figures who we mostly agree existed despite having approximately the same amount of proof as for Jesus.

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    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Corroborating records are

      And there’s not enough to prove that Jesus Christ existed…

      There’s a Jesus that got crucified, but no mention about him being able to perform miracles

      Like a third of the bible

      I don’t think any of it was written till decades after he supposedly died tho…

      Like, there’s lots of information about Bilbo Baggins in Lotr, that doesn’t mean it was written in the third age of Middle Earth homie.

      There are plenty of historical figures who we mostly agree existed despite having approximately the same amount of proof as for Jesus.

      Name one and I’ll disporve it.

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      • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        There’s a Jesus that got crucified, but no mention about him being able to perform miracles

        Obviously miracles aren’t real. I wasn’t claiming otherwise. We’re talking about whether or not the person Jesus existed, not if magic is real.

        It sounds like we agree

        I don’t think any of it was written till decades after he supposedly died tho…

        Okay but it was written by people who claim they were there and met him personally.

        To borrow your asinine LOTR analogy, it is more like you are claiming Thorinn Oakenshield never existed simply because Bilbo only wrote “There and Back Again” after he got home from memory.

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      • frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        There’s a Jesus that got crucified, but no mention about him being able to perform miracles

        You just 100% conceded. /thread

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      • mkwt@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Like, there’s lots of information about Bilbo Baggins in Lotr, that doesn’t mean it was written in the third age of Middle Earth homie

        The conceit of the LOTR appendices is that Lord of the Rings, as published in English, is really just the Red Book that Bilbo writes at the end. Dr. Tolkien merely found the manuscript somewhere and has graciously translated it from Third Age common language into English for the benefit of us modern people.

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      • SorteKanin@feddit.dk ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        And there’s not enough to prove that Jesus Christ existed…

        Says who?

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      • frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Name one and I’ll disporve it.

        Diarmait mac Cerbaill

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    • Jericho_One@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      several contemporary documents all point to the existence of a guy named something like Joshua

      IIRC, there’s really only a single mention of a possible link to someone of this name that was crucified at the supposed time, and that single mention happened at least 50 (maybe 100?) years later, and there’s evidence that this passage was added even later.

      So I didn’t think it’s true that there are “several contemporary documents” like you claimed…

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  • SorteKanin@feddit.dk ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Quality of the evidence matters. I’m personally not a historical expert on the topic and in such situations, I’m inclined to believe whatever the people who are experts say - and as far as I gather, most experts are in the “Jesus was a real historical person”-camp.

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  • frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Evidence isn’t the standard for things existing?

    Of course not. There are millions of examples of false claims for which there is more than zero evidence. e.g. I can claim I know which stocks will rise tomorrow, and point to various data of times I’ve been right. You can’t correctly say “There is zero evidence Frightful Hobgoblin is prescient about stock movements”.

    There often exists evidence of two mutually incompatible propositions. This is basics.

    If you want to research the historicity of Jesus it’s easily done. If you want to argue on the internet… you know what they say about that.

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    • Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I will say that while evidence existing isn’t definitive proof, the total lack of evidence would be convincing. That said, evidence does exist in this case, so

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      • Feathercrown@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        That’s the opposite of how it should work

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