Comment on So is Israel just going to finish Palestine off?
NoiseColor@startrek.website 5 months ago
Israel can’t just overtake it. There is too many people there. They already tried that tactic for the last 30(?) years when gaza was a prison.
I don’t think they know what they want and can even achieve in this campaign. I don’t think they will invade Lebanon.
I don’t think they know what they want
What would YOU want if you were a military leader of Israel there? (NOT a political one, just a soldier)
I think that they want exactly that. A military goal, not a political one.
For example “kill everybody there who takes a weapon and aims it at Israel, and then take this weapon away from his corpse.”
Militarily? I don’t think anyone can expect they can achieve any kind of real military goal.
Maybe what you said, to kill some combatants and many times the amount of civilians with them. But that’s not really a military goal.
I don’t think anyone can expect they can achieve
I wasn’t talking about achieving, but only about wanting.
Thats not true Israel knows exactly what they want and are doing and about 2 million (gaza) aren’t that many the remaining parts of Palestinia aren’t that many people either. A takeover of much larger places has been done in history several times.
I see you disagree with everything I said and I think you are wrong. Let’s just leave it at that.
It’s been clear and consistent since day 1 of the war. Israel wants the return of the hostages taken on Oct 7, the removal of Hamas from power, and the inability for Hamas or any other group to repeat a deadly attack within Israel.
That was the goal on Oct 7, that’s still the goal. Anything else is just politics and propaganda.
Now, how effectively they have done so, and the methods they’ve employed are another discussion entirely.
Yes well we would all like impossible things, but that’s not really an achievable goal and everybody on all sides are aware of that.
They’ve already invaded Lebanon before and every time it was for the same reason, and that was to prevent the Hezbollah terrorists from committing terrorist attacks against Israel. This time is no different
Everytime it’s a bit different.
The point is that even if they invade Lebanon again, it will be similar to the prior military operations they’ve had before. They’re not going to capture Lebanese territories like they did with Golan Heights. Otherwise they would’ve done it since they’ve had multiple opportunities to do so.
Monument@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
They control the borders and they are systematically destroying infrastructure while stealing the land to be ‘settled’ by right wing Israelis. (They done let liberal folk become settlers.)
The right wingers have no issue with being bad neighbors or otherwise murdering Palestinians. And they are backed up by the military. Any resistance is returned 10-fold, with an associated grab for land.
If a cease fire can be forged, the control of the border will mean that the they will continue their existing blockade on imports of building materials such as cement, so new infrastructure cannot be built. They are even using construction equipment to remove or bury rubble, so it cannot be repurposed/recycled.
The plan is to do to Gaza what they have already done to the West Bank. Turn it into fragmented enclaves that lack access to basic resources. It’s clear they even want to block total access to the beach, to prevent fishing for food. It’s why they are literally selling the land that is currently being bombed. They want to make it impossible to live there if you’re Palestinian. They want everyone that isn’t part of their theocracy to die off, or emigrate.
Not related, but totally related.
I’ve watched these interviews with white supremacists in the U.S. who talk/fantasize about the creation of a ‘white’ ethnostate. They always talk about how there will be a nonviolent transition to this, saying that people who don’t match their racial parameters will be relocated to places outside of the state, or those who won’t have children will be allowed to live out their lives, etc. And that’s widely regarded with a ‘sure buddy’ and you know they’re full of crap. People don’t want to move away from their homes. They don’t want to go where they don’t know anyone. They don’t want to lose their jobs, their savings, all their stuff, the land they own and the effort they’ve pored into their home and land or the resources their home/land offers them.
But the situation in Palestine is literally that. People are ‘voluntarily’ relocating (after their homes, jobs, neighborhoods, and often, families) have been blown up by bombs. Or they’re staying and living out the rest of their lives - until they’re shot or a bomb goes off, or they die from malnutrition, thirst, or contaminated water. Hm.
I suppose it’s (relatively) nonviolent to the aggressor.
SleezyDizasta@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Wtf are you on? There were already settlements in Gaza that dated back before the Israel independence, and Israel continued to support them up until 2005 when they unilaterally existed. The hope was that exist would foster peace between Gaza and Israel, but the first thing Gazans did was elect Hamas and the rest is history. It doesn’t make sense for Israel to go back into Gaza. They already gave it up, which means there’s no strategic value there. They have nothing to gain from such a move.
Monument@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
Why are Jews settling Palestinian land in the first place?
Maybe, after forcing them from their major cities, laying claim to the most fertile land in their country, and then refusing their right to assert their own statehood (and using a superpower to back them up in that), then spending 70 years depriving them of ever-increasing amounts of their country, and blockading imports (why blockade spices for traditional foods?!?), that the presence of anything taking more of their land in the open air prison they’ve been forced into to offer a ‘peace settlement’ is not welcome.
What are you on? Is there no ability for inductive reasoning there, or are you hoping that for all your words, there’s no logic, facts, or grounding in reality?
NoiseColor@startrek.website 5 months ago
Sure, that’s the long term goal. I don’t think you can call that a goal of this war campaign.
This one clashes with short term goals of Netanyahu of staying in power.
Monument@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
But after 30 years of lack of movement, this situation offers pretext for war without restraint. I don’t believe they plan to stop.
They don’t have to kill each person to achieve their aims. Sometimes just making sure the water is undrinkable is enough to kill tens of thousands or force many times that number to leave and never return.
2 Days Ago: Israeli strike kills Gaza workers trying to restore drinking water – The National. (My wife sent me this. I don’t know the publication.)