We’re free from stupid shit like mandatory free warranties on electronics, or chicken that doesn’t taste like the physical incarnation of sadness, or fresh vegetables where you don’t have to throw half away right after you buy it!
Comment on UK clothing sales to EU plummet as Brexit red tape deters exporters
HowManyNimons@lemmy.world 5 months agoAnd that helps them how?
CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 5 months ago
rah@feddit.uk 5 months ago
For a start it means that the structure of the government better reflects the concerns of the population. The EU never really made much of a dent in the consciousness of Britons. I expect the number of citizens who knew the name of their MEP off the top of their head would be dwarfed by the number of citizens who knew the name of their MP. Compared to continental countries, particularly Germany in my mind and possibly France, the EU, EU parties and MEPs are very much present in the minds of the electorate. At least, that was my experience.
Also, in my view the EU is quite undemocratic. The separate Council, Commission and Parliament are an affront. Especially the fact that the Parliament, which represents the electorate, does not have the power to introduce legislation. The people are an inconvenient afterthought in the EU power structure. I’m afraid I can’t find a link right this second but somewhere I have a copy of an interview with Yanis Varoufakis when he was finance minister for Greece back when they had their economic meltdown where he says that he was told by others around the halls of EU power that “the people” should not be given the power to decide economic policy. That, to me, is the EU.
Tweak@feddit.uk 5 months ago
Also, in my view the EU is quite undemocratic. The separate Council, Commission and Parliament are an affront. Especially the fact that the Parliament, which represents the electorate, does not have the power to introduce legislation.
You do realise that the entire structure of the EU was primarily dreamt up by British legal experts? It’s quite literally one of the best, most robust and most competent systems of governance in the world.
Yes, Parliament can’t introduce legislation by themselves, but that’s because we don’t want populists like Farage, Boris or Trump to do that. They’re charismatic, but not actually competent. That’s why talented legal experts in the European Commission (who are each appointed by elected governments of member states, the UK had 6 iirc), people who actually know how law works, write the laws. The elected MEP’s vote on the laws.
However even here we’re missing the fact that the European Parliament (EP) do have a say in the legislation. The EC writes an “Impact Assessment” with rough draft of the law they’re thinking of writing (which anyone can comment on), then this is presented before Parliament who propose and discuss amendments. So it’s completely disingenuous to imply that the elected EP is somehow beholden to the “unelected” (but chosen for competency by elected member governments) EC bureaucrats.
And all that skips around what starts the EC’s initial proposal. Aside from occassionally writing laws off their own backs, the EC responds to requests from:
- The European Council (heads of state or government of each EU country)
- The Council of the European Union (government ministers from each EU country)
- The European Parliament (directly elected by EU citizens)
- Citizens themselves, following a successful European Citizens’ Initiative
That’s right, not only can Parliament demand new legislation (they just have to get the big boy lawyers to write it for them), but individual citizens can directly!
Parliament has the final say in whether or not legislation is implemented. That’s completely democratic. What you call “an affront” is actually competent people writing effective legislation. Rather than bullshit like the Rwanda deal which states the UK will accept vulnerable refugees from Rwanda in exchange for the small boat migrants to Rwanda (all paid for by the UK taxpayer), or the general ineptitude of no legislation at all and a Hard Brexit causing issues like sewage being dumped in our rivers since water companies now face restrictions on importing treatment chemicals from the EU.
rah@feddit.uk 5 months ago
It’s quite literally one of the best, most robust and most competent systems of governance in the world.
LOL
Parliament demand new legislation
As I undsrstand it, the Parliament does not have the power to compel the Commission to introduce legislation. The Parliament can make requests (not “demands”) but the Commission has the power to say “no” to those requests. This is critical.
HowManyNimons@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Here’s the thing: the UK needs trade agreements in order to thrive. The EU may be only minimally democratic, but the fact that the people get a say at all in the terms of that set of trade agreements is considerably better than the day we’d get in any other trade agreement. Especially given that we would be the minor partner an any trade agreement we made with powerful partners: we’d be letting the USA, for example, dictate to our government. If we ever do an agreement with the USA, you can bet that it would come with rules about generic drugs, and allowing them to buy up our schools, hospitals and prisons – and the people would get no say at all.
Meanwhile the EU, for all its faults, has rules based around human rights, environmental protection, animal welfare and mutual prosperity. Not only that: being out of the EU has cost us 5% growth per annum. Our exposure to global catastrophes has been worse, and our recoveries slower, than other EU countries and comparable economies. Our labour market is a mess, our exporters are inundated with paperwork, and our governments, without the leavening influence of the “undemocratic” EU, have been more corrupt, more cruel and less respectful of human rights.
rah@feddit.uk 5 months ago
the fact that the people get any say at all in the terms of that set of trade agreements is considerably better than the say we’d get in any other trade agreement
I’ve no idea what you’re talking about.
Meanwhile the EU, for all its faults, has rules based around human rights, environmental protection, animal welfare and mutual prosperity. That’s the type of trade agreement that we want.
EU directives around human rights, environmental protection or animal welfare are not trade agreements. Membership in the EU is not a trade agreement. Indeed, the fact that it is more than just a trade agreement, is the problem.
Not only that: being out of the EU has cost us 5% growth per annum. Our exposure to global catastrophes has been worse, and our recoveries slower, than EU countries and comparable economies. Our labour market is a mess,
The cost of leaving the EU is money well spent.
our governments, without the leavening influence of the “undemocratic” EU, have been more corrupt, more cruel and less respectful of human rights
This just seems absurd to me. I see no such increases.
Regardless, you want less corruption, less cruelty, more respect for human rights, and you’re happy to give up degrees of democracy in order to have that. We differ.
HowManyNimons@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Please try to understand; it’s very important. Every trade agreement we make costs us sovereignty. You want a publicly owned NHS? Too bad. It’s on the negotiating table when we deal with the Americans. In secret.
EU directives around human rights, environmental protection or animal welfare are not trade agreements.
They are effectively terms of a trade agreement. Goods traded in the EU have to meet standards.
The cost of leaving the EU is money well spent.
To what end? Nothing is better. Many things are worse. Is there any payoff at all?
This just seems absurd to me. I see no such increases.
Exhibit A: The Rwanda scheme.
you want less corruption, less cruelty, more respect for human rights, and you’re happy to give up degrees of democracy in order to have that.
I simply don’t believe we will have “more democracy” outside the EU. We elected our MEPs. We do not elect our trade negotiators, nor those with whom they negotiate. In terms of democracy, we’re swapping a pittance for nothing. So I’ll take the reduced cruelty and corruption, and the human rights please.
calcopiritus@lemmy.world 5 months ago
So much focus on democracy. Yet when a significant portion of your population (Scotland) wants to vote to leave the UK (partly so they can stay in the EU) you don’t even let them.
Sounds like cherry picking democracy is no longer an issue.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 5 months ago
They really owned the libs there, didn’t they?
rah@feddit.uk 5 months ago
What are “libs”?
threeduck@aussie.zone 5 months ago
Go away sealion
rah@feddit.uk 5 months ago
Eh?