You have the right to access the internet through WiFi like everyone else. So where’s the problem?
Comment on Has ethernet become illegitimate? A librarian flipped out after spotting me using ethernet
coffeeClean@infosec.pub 6 months agoPrivate libraries are quite rare. I think only one employer I worked for had an on-site private library where the assets are not publicly owned. It’s rare. Most libraries are public.
My post is about public libraries, which were financed with public money. It’s worth noting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Article 21
¶2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
GreatBlue@infosec.pub 6 months ago
coffeeClean@infosec.pub 6 months ago
That “right” is exclusively available to people who:
- have a mobile phone
- who carry it with them
- who have working wifi hardware
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights has no such limitation on Article 21.
catloaf@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Bruh it’s library Internet access, not a human rights violation
coffeeClean@infosec.pub 6 months ago
You need to read Article 21. And as you read it, keep in mind it’s a public library.
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
The UDHR is not a treaty, so it does not create any direct legal bindings. The article you quote may have been excluded, overwritten or rephrased in your jurisdiction.
coffeeClean@infosec.pub 6 months ago
The UDHR is not a treaty, so it does not create any direct legal bindings.
Sure, but where are you going with this? Legal binding only matters in situations of legal action and orthogonal to its application in a discussion in a forum. Human rights violations are rampant and they rarely go to The Hague (though that frequency is increasing). Human rights law is symbolic and carries weight in the court of public opinion. Human rights law and violations thereof get penalized simply by widespread condemnation by the public. So of course it’s useful to spotlight HR violations in a pubic forum.
The article you quote may have been excluded, overwritten or rephrased in your jurisdiction.
I doubt it. It’s been a while since I read the exemptions of the various rights but I do not recall any mods to Article 21. The modifications do not generally wholly exclude an article. They typically make some slight modification, such as limiting free assembly (Art.20 IIRC) to /safe/ gatherings so unsafe gatherings can be broken up.
Cort@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I see a lot of downvotes on your comments on this thread and I wonder if it’s due to differences in nationality/geography/jurisdiction. In the USA I know we give free smartphones with working Wi-Fi to people with low incomes as a part of the lifeline program. Some of the libraries I’ve been to even have staff on hand to help low income people find out about these sorts of benefits, and even help them sign up. Maybe they don’t have this sort of program where you’re from?
And I know most people DO carry their phones with them wherever they go these days assuming they haven’t forgotten it somewhere.
Am I missing something? To me, in my area, these limitations would be a choice the user has made.
coffeeClean@infosec.pub 6 months ago
I see that the relevant websites (FCC and lifelinesupport.org) both block Tor so you can’t be poor in need of the Lifeline and simultaneously care about privacy. Many parts of the US have extremely expensive telecom costs. I think I heard an avg figure of like $300/month (for all info svcs [internet,phone,TV]), which I struggle to believe but I know it’s quite costly nonetheless. One source says $300/month is the high end figure, not an avg. Anyway, a national avg of $144/month just for a mobile phone plan is absurdly extortionate.
About Lifeline:
Lifeline provides subscribers a discount on qualifying monthly telephone service, broadband Internet service, or bundled voice-broadband packages purchased from participating wireline or wireless providers. The discount helps ensure that low-income consumers can afford 21st century connectivity services and the access they provide to jobs, healthcare, and educational resources.
So they get a discount. But you say free? Does the discount become free if income is below a threshold? In any case, I’m sure the program gets more phones into more needy hands, which would shrink the population of marginalized people. That’s a double edged sword. Shrinking the size of a marginalized group without completely eliminating it means fewer people are harmed. But those in that group are further disempowered by their smaller numbers, easier to oppress, and less able to correct the core of the problem: not having a right to be analog and be unplugged.
This topic could be a whole Lemmy community, not just a thread. In the US, you have only three carriers: AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile. I’ve seen enough wrongdoing by all 3 to boycott all 3. I would not finance any them no matter how much money I have. T-Mobile is the lesser of evils but it’s wrong to be forced to feed any of the three as an arbitrary needless precondition to using the library’s public wifi.
US govs do not (AFAIK) yet impose tech on people. I think every gov service in the US has an analog option, including cash payment options. That’s not the case in many regions outside the US. There are already govs that now absolutely force you to complete some government transactions online, along with electronic payments which imposes bank patronisation, even if you boycott the banks for investing in fossil fuels and private prisons. And if you don’t like being forced to use their Google CAPTCHA (which supports Google, the surveillance advertiser who participates in fossil fuel extraction), that’s tough. Poor people are forced to use a PC (thus the library) to do public sector transactions with the gov, as are a segment of elderly people who struggle to use the technology. There is also a segment of tech people who rightfully object, precisely because they know enough about how info traverses information systems to see how privacy is undermined largely due to loss of control (control being in the wrong hands).
So the pro-privacy tech activists are united with the low-tech elderly and the poor together fighting this oppression (called “digital transformation”) which effectively takes away our boycott power and right to choose who we do business with in the private sector. A divide and conquer approach is being used. Giving the poor cheaper tech and giving assistance to the elderly is a good thing but the side effect is enabling the oppression to go unabated. When really the right answer in the end is to not impose shitty options in the first place. It’s like the corp swindle of forced bundling (you can only get X if you also take Y). You should be able to get public wifi without a mobile phone subscription.
The UDHR prohibits discrimination on the basis of what property you have. The intent is to protect the poor, but the protection is actually rightfully bigger in scope because people who willfully opt not to have property are also in the protected class.
It’s all quite parallel to Snowden’s take. The masses don’t care about privacy due to not really understanding it.
“Ultimately, arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.” ― Edward Snowden
The idea that activists need both free speech and privacy in order to fight for everyone’s rights is lost on people making the /selfish/ choice to disregard privacy. All those mobile phone users who don’t give a shit about mobile phones being imposed on everyone are missing this concept. The choice to have a mobile phone is dying. It’s gradually and quietly becoming an unwritten mandate.
normonator@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
You can use it but on their terms. Your privacy doesnt mean anything to them, they are protecting themselves. Captive portal is likely making you agree to not abuse the service.
Also you’re choosing not to participate which is fair but they don’t need to support that.
coffeeClean@infosec.pub 6 months ago
You can use it but on their terms.
Not without a phone.
Captive portal is likely making you agree to not abuse the service.
Nothing about a captive portal requires wifi. There are many ways to get that agreement. Neglecting to make the agreement part of the ToS when you become a member is just reckless.
normonator@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
Their terms require a phone so yes, on their terms. Why would they make an exception for anyone?
Their captive portal requires wifi and thats all that matters. And why would they want to deal with paper agreements for WiFi?
You don’t have to be a member to use WiFi, someone else could have given you the password if there even is one, so ya even if you did agree when signing up it would make sense to still require that.
I implement these kind of setups including a couple libraries and while I would have Ethernet ports available if within budget, I would not allow you to bypass captive portal, the agreement, or traffic filtering. I don’t care what you are doing but I am required to try not to allow easy access to questionable content. If someone is doing something illegal it’s gonna involve the library if you get caught (that’s why the phone number but maybe they are just being shitty with it). Not worth the risk. Also a lot of those decisions are made by a board so being upset with the staff won’t accomplish anything. Wifi is cheap, pulling cable can be very costly in comparison and depending on building type can be hard, damaging or, not feasible. Those ports could also be broken because people don’t respect shit, that could also be the reason for their reaction.
This is all I got for you, good luck but if you want your privacy you’re likely going to have to go somewhere else.
coffeeClean@infosec.pub 6 months ago
Their terms require a phone so yes, on their terms.
I keep a copy of everything I sign. The ToS I signed do not require a mobile phone. It’s an ad hoc implementation that was certainly not thought out to the extent of mirroring the demand for a mobile phone number into the agreement.
Why would they make an exception for anyone?
Because their charter is not: “to provide internet service exclusively for residents who have mobile phones”.
And why would they want to deal with paper agreements for WiFi?
Paper agreements:
- do not discriminate (you cannot be a party to an agreement that you cannot reach)
- are more likely to actually be read (almost no one reads a tickbox agreement)
- inherently (or at least easily) give the non-drafting party a copy of the agreement for their records. A large volume of text on a tiny screen is unlikely to even be opened and even less likely to save it. Not having a personal copy reduces the chance of adherence to the terms.
- provide a higher standard of evidence whenever the agreement is litigated over
You don’t have to be a member to use WiFi, someone else could have given you the password if there even is one
That’s not how it works. The captive portal demands a phone number. After supplying it, an SMS verification code is sent. It’s bizarre that you would suggest asking a stranger in a library for their login info. In the case at hand, someone would have to share their mobile number, and then worry that something naughty would be done under their phone number, and possibly also put that other person at risk for helping someone circumvent the authentication (which also could be easily detected when the same phone number is used for two parallel sessions).
If someone is doing something illegal it’s gonna involve the library if you get caught (that’s why the phone number but maybe they are just being shitty with it). Not worth the risk.
Exactly what makes it awkward to ask someone else to use their phone.
amio@kbin.social 6 months ago
Then go sue them over their lack of Your Particular Setup-compatible wifi, I guess.
amio@kbin.social 6 months ago
Poor trolling is showing there, 2/10 for the sheer effort of typing up all this bullshit.
lmao