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As far as I understand, Zwarte Piet started out as a depiction of a black person. But it wasn’t used, like minstrel shows were, to push hateful and limiting stereotypes of black people.

I don’t think every American doing blackface must have been racist, but I think that given the cultural context in America, doing so will justifiably cause such massive offence that it can’t really be defended.

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anewfox@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
yeah this still just sounds like “it’s only racist when americans do it,” because yeesh, that explanation of where it came from isn’t helping your case.

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- FishFace@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I didn’t give an explanation so I don’t really understand
  
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VerilyFemme@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Image

Idk about that one, chief.

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- rabidhamster@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Uh, are they literally depicting a minstrel-show black man kidnapping a white woman?
  
  Euro racism denial is like those confederate losers who say it’s “just about heritage.” Or WWII collectors who seem to ONLY gravitate toward third reich shit. It’s such a naked “well, technically…”
  
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- FishFace@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Where’s the hate/limitation I spoke of? Or I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
  
  I also specifically didn’t say that the reaction makes something racist; rather I said it can make it indefensible. I feel like we’re not communicating well here.
  
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  - VerilyFemme@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    Americans tend to assume that any instance of a white person painting their face black is horrendous
    
    That implies that the instance we’re talking about, in this case Zwarte Piet, is not horrendous. See above image. I believe that is where the miscommunication is happening.
    
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    FishFace@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    What exactly is it that you find horrendous? Pretend I’m a very sheltered teenager.
    
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