Tbh idk why people think capitalism is a good thing.
Marx wrote a whole book on it that you should check out. The primary appeal, as a system, is that it accelerates property and infrastructure development.
Comment on Min wage in most states is so sad
lemmelemmy@feddit.org 1 day ago
Well then that’s not capitalism.
Tbh idk why people think capitalism is a good thing. It’s just feudalism with corporations.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 day ago
GreenShimada@lemmy.world 1 day ago
To be honest, I don’t think most people understand what the definitions of capitalism or communism or socialism are any more.
And it cuts both ways, 99% of Lemmy is like Mirror Universe Fox News, where if they see something bad, it’s capitalism’s fault. Someone crashed their car? Capitalism did it. Someone got sick? Capitalism. Fox viewers blame everything on “socialism” and have no idea what it means, either. For Lemmy it seems to be just any system that exists on Earth that isn’t a utopia.
Kids, please - humans are shit to each other under every system ever imagined. And they would be shit to each other under any new system we can imagine in the future. As is evidenced by how people are shit to each other and complain about their lives in every other country on Earth. No where is unique in that no one complains about being there.
InputZero@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Kids, please listen to the adult in the room.
That’s a defeatist argument, it set’s the goal post wayy too far, and doesn’t propose a solution or at the very least point to an obstruction without a solution. I get it, I’m tired too. It’s easier to say nothing will work and watch the decline than it is try to make a better future. It reads of “Capitalism is the worst form of economy, except for all the other forms we’ve tried.” A dumb quote wrapped up in a lazy joke to make it more palatable if there ever was one.
Not to mention that saying that the only system that’s worth having is one where no one has a complaint is an absurd thing to say. Be real. Nothing is perfect, but don’t let perfect be the enemy of good enough. There are many places in the world where people are happy, usually in the countries with strong support of labor. Most are still capitalist but people live much easier, happier and fulfilling lives. Sure they have complaints but you can’t please everyone.
GreenShimada@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Look, I’ll admit I didn’t realize I wasn’t in a community I didn’t subscribe to, and accidentally hit it from the front page before I had logged in. That’s on me for throwing an obviously unpopular comment out here. I didn’t mean to show up and stir shit on purpose. For what that’s worth. And, also for what it’s worth, I do support work reform. FFS the minimum wage hasn’t changed for most of my adult life, and things are generally untenable for a lot of people.
With that out of the way, I’m not saying “well, it’s the only system we got! Might as well keep it!” Not at all. What I am saying is to be cautious about a Grass is Greener scenario where you’ve built up an incredibly lofty goal of large-scale economic reforms, as if it’s some panacea. It’s not. Every economic system sucks, and every one is hard work to protect rights and be good to humans. It’s equally possible under pure, unrestrained capitalism to be socially just and rights-respecting as it is under any other system.
For those entirely consumed by the idea that only shifting to full on socialism is the key, and that the only reason things are bad anywhere is due to capitalism, swapping out economic systems will accomplish little more than pain and suffering for the poorest among us during the transition phase. That’s how it always works, and has always worked in the past. We’re not so advanced as to skip that part.
So what? So I’m saying that people’s minds, attitudes, and hearts are the core of the problem. Greed, not limited by governments of any sort, is the problem. Idolizing abusers and sociopaths is a problem. Focus on material wealth is a problem - and one that every single Soviet or socialist government faced as well. A command economy can’t command people to change what their brain stem says.
Again, sorry for showing up here and shitting the bed. I’m just asking people to consider reforms within the system that most people know to see what’s possible. Regardless of what that system is. North Korea should try the same. China did exactly that, and liberalizing their economy is why they’ve seen such success over the last 15-20 years. They adapted within their own system, they didn’t scrap it all, let millions starve, and start from scratch because people alive today remember the last time they did that, and it was miserable.
Anyway, just my opinion. Enjoy your angry downvote and banning me from the community.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 day ago
It’s all just idpol now. Capitalists are on the “America Good” Team and Socialists/Communists are on the “America Bad” Team. No deeper analysis needed.
People will complain about “capitalism” because they don’t have health care or their in too much debt or their single and lonely or they’re LGBTQ or PoC or obviously poor while getting wailed on by a police officer. And they’ll say “damn this shit sucks, must be the capitalism” when a lot of it just boils down to your neighbors and leaders being bigot pedophile freaks.
Like, you think Communism is so great? Explain Boris Yeltsin. He was a fucking Commie. And look what happened.
Humans are a very mixed bag. But Americans are a special breed of narcissistic, consumerist, sociopaths. And not because of some kind of genetics thing, either. The country attracts these freaks like a magnet.
From Ayn Rand to Wernher von Braun to Benjamin Netanyahu to Elon Musk, the world’s worst human beings are drawn to this place. They pilgrimage here and export their awfulness abroad. Or they take root and fester. Either way, America prints the worst humans imaginable.
GreenShimada@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Sure, but cultures and nationalities do this all the time. If you’ve never experienced being around some Russian on vacation, I promise, Americans aren’t the only annoying people out there. Or the English in any part of Western Europe that’s a cheap flight away from London. For as self-deprecating as the English seem to be today, there’s centuries of colonialism and exploited wealth behind it that can’t be ignored, mostly due to the cultural exports that remain. For centuries, if an English or Spanish ship showed up somewhere, everyone else was going to have a bad time, and both groups happily only assumed they were the best there ever was. Cold War efforts to spread the Gospel of America around the world through Hollywood were profoundly successful, and a lot of people bought in.
Which isn’t to say that every English or Spanish or Russian or American is bad, more so that under either system, and under every system of government so far, including anarchy, some total shitbags rise to the top. Maybe Spaceballs was right. Maybe Evil will always win, because Good is dumb.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
The Americanization of Russia in the 90s/00s was a deeply tragic moment in the country’s history.
Ye Olde Amerikkkans
The irony of that line was the bad guy being very dumb and losing a few scenes later.
lemmelemmy@feddit.org 1 day ago
Exactly my comment on being a feudalic system. Burgoise and aristocrats defeated monarchy.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 day ago
They also reorganized labor in a manner that produced significant improvements to overall quality of life.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Who needs to understand definitions? Your actions are self-evident and show who you are within the system. In a world where the powerful are scraping coins off of you for more yachts I try my best to help the people and the land. I can do that without knowing economic theory. Even a child can understand that.
GreenShimada@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Sausage tin angle float turkey sassafras, monkey ancient refractive judgement velocity steamboat.
Which any kid can understand. You’re right - what good are definitions, mongoose!
melsaskca@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Damn! I’m always getting kicked out of the exclusive “smart people” clubs.
lemmelemmy@feddit.org 1 day ago
I think you need to be a bit open minded why people are thinking instead telling others how they should be thinking your way.
At this point, there’s no way you’d have “power” unless you have inherited immense wealth or provided with powerful connections. I am in favour of if I have to work, so as others. And generation that’s below boomers, physically impossible to have a relaxed life if they don’t have the conditions that I’ve wrote. it’s because capitalism is always set to “grow”. You need to profit even more compared to last period so you’d be considered as “successful”.
In this world nothing ever grows indefinitely. When it does either eruptions or cancer happens. It’s not natural. If you wanna take two seats you need to kick someone off the seat to take that seat. So billionaires hold most of the money which turns into power. Look - turns out they’re the biggest capitalists in entire human history. I really couldn’t be bothered if I don’t see Coca Cola in my supermarket. Heck I don’t even need a fucking fresh starfruit available all week. So I don’t care about global gdp or bla bla. I live in one those so called “first world countries” yet I’m afraid I’m going to die in a damp cold house when I’m old because I never had been in the class of selected people. Mind you - I’ve got my own house and savings etc. worked my ass off. Yet still the future is not safe. Bank taking everything off your hand when you’re in a tight position (for example; getting redundant) and hospitals chucking you out in the street when you don’t have enough money. Holding your baby after giving birth is a “charged service” in US. This is capitalism not people being “evil”. And this can fuck off.
Anyway, hope you done read this with as an offence. I think you need to grow the way you think.
Chill. Looking down at people is the most illiterate thing that you can do to yourself.
GreenShimada@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
I appreciate your perspective here, and to be fair, I’m open minded as to what sorts of reforms the West needs to be more sustainable. For a while there seemed to be both a sense of decorum and maybe even morals, plus regulations, that help back unfettered pursuit of wealth for wealth’s sake. Personally, I think that the tech industry and finance broke that down, and with the bar set to “get it all as fast as you can,” the wheels are off the cart for both a system that used to work OK-ish for many people (certainly not all).
Like this - at what point did things work well? It wasn’t a long time, historically speaking. I’m guessing based on mention of a damp, cold house you’re from the UK or Ireland, and it’s really just within our life times that things were working mostly OK for some, and now it’s fallen apart. I’m not challenging you on this, I agree. But I’m also wondering if we’re going to look to some point in the past when things did work, when was that? A decade or so? A few years? Was it when we were kids and didn’t understand the bad stuff going on?
My personal gripe is that “capitalism” simply means that someone with a business takes their profits and re-invests them back into the business. Growth isn’t a requirement - it’s what large businesses focus on. That re-investment could be better wages for workers, or better health insurance, or nicer desks and chairs and table tennis in the break room. Growth as the goal is a choice. Also, a lot of people focus entirely on a handful of large businesses doing this. Most businesses in the UK AND the US are small businesses. Literally 99.9 % of American businesses are employ less than 50 people. Almost half of Americans work at small businesses, and they’re more than half out GDP. So when 0.1% of the businesses are predatory and problematic, but also command 40% of our GDP - it seems like a touchy problem, but a solvable one.
Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Critical thinking doesn’t exist on this platform. The mainstream narratives on Lemmy are built on shaky foundations and can’t get past basic scrutiny. It’s why the more ideologically zealous have so much censorship. This isn’t a left, right, whatever issue. It’s an education issue, and it’s impact is reflected by every demographic in the nation.