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Comment on Why do women in golf wear those short/skirt things while the men wear pants?

The only reason women are allowed to wear pants now is because we demanded it.

Many women are still not allowed to wear pants. Also, bit of a tangent, but is that like an 'anti-royal we' or are you old as fuck?

Take a wild guess as to who were the ones to make those laws.

I don't have to guess, I have relation with people from cultures where it's not acceptable yet for women to wear whatever they want. It is enforced by their whole community, not only men, and it, the community, also imposes strict rules on how to live for men too.

I didn't mean it in the sense that there's no sexism anymore, because there absolutely is. But every time I heard, or read, someone using the word 'patriarchy' is to spout some culture-war nonsense that doesn't help fight sexism at all, quite the opposite—if it has any effect is pushing boys and young men (and some girls and women) that don't know any better into the arms of conservatism. These lads are not your oppressors, and they have no more say than you or me into how society works, but if you treat them as if they were your enemy many of them will eventually become your enemy.

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isyasad@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I feel like it’s most useful to view patriarchy as something that does exist and does generally give men more power, but that doesn’t mean it actually benefits men or even empowers men in every domain. It is to the detriment of all people, male and female, that the distribution of power is weighted towards one sex.

And since people of whatever sex/gender can be harmed by the patriarchy, there is of course no reason to “blame” it on men. Or really, almost anyone.

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- Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  my take is that simply dropping “the” from “the patriarchy” does a lot to make it more useful and less uncomfortable to talk about.
  It’s not some specific thing, people don’t have meetings on enforcing The Patriarchy, it’s just an effect.
  I’m not sure if it’s strictly comparable but like, talking about “the democracy” would sound strange, but talking about “democracy” is completely normal.
  
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- OfCourseNot@fedia.io ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Is it useful, tho? Whom for? Because I only see it dividing the oppressed people, blaming each others as if they were the oppressors, when they are not. It's only useful for the real oppressors.
  
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  - velma@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    It’s only useful for the real oppressors.
    
    Who are the real oppressors?
    
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    OfCourseNot@fedia.io ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Do you want like names or something? They're the people you've voted for (and also the other people in the ballots), the people you've worked (or will work) for, people you've paid rent to...
    
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velma@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Also, bit of a tangent, but is that like an ‘anti-royal we’ or are you old as fuck?

I’m a woman.

It’s the patriarchy that is the reason for these laws. The patriarchy is not synonymous with men and boys. It is the system that upholds strict gender roles for both men and women. The patriarchy is detrimental to men and boys as well.

I don’t have to guess, I have relation with people from cultures where it’s not acceptable yet for women to wear whatever they want. It is enforced by their whole community, not only men, and it, the community, also imposes strict rules on how to live for men too.

Don’t play coy. Those cultures are run by men in positions of power. The law-makers help hold up patriarchal norms.

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- OfCourseNot@fedia.io ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  The patriarchy is not synonymous with men and boys. It is the system that upholds strict gender roles for both men and women. The patriarchy is detrimental to men and boys as well.
  
  It means literally being 'ruled by the father'. I know languages are living, evolving things, and words' meanings change and drift, that's why when we want one to hold its meaning we use dead languages like Ancient Greek. The word that fits that definition is 'sexism'.
  
  Don't play coy. Those cultures are run by men in positions of power. The law-makers help hold up patriarchal norms.
  
  I am not, and I'll give you an example from one of those cultures I'm closer with: in my country gypsies (the Calé people) are a patriarchal culture, in the sense that they have literal 'patriarchs', kind of like community leaders with a bit of extra-official power. But in most gypsy families I've met it was the women the ones that owned everything: homes, cars, bank accounts.. and the keepers and enforcers of some quite barbaric, in my opinion, traditions and rituals (practiced by many, but not all) against women and girls, when they could literally just walk away with everything if they so wanted, they usually don't legalise the marriages because they don't trust the payos' (non-gypsy) laws and system (can't blame them) so they wouldn't even have to divorce. But they don't, and if a young woman strays from tradition they are the first to make her pay. They are as responsible as the men on maintaining the sexism.
  
  I'm a woman.
  
  Ok. I already suspected that. But did you have to demand being able to wear pants? Or are you including yourself with the ones that did it because of a shared (gender) identity? This is just a me thing, but I just find the latter weird, not just for gender but for any other facet of someone identity, probably because I lack the identity part of my brain, or it's not developed, I think.
  
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  - velma@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    It means literally being ‘ruled by the father’. I know languages are living, evolving things, and words’ meanings change and drift, that’s why when we want one to hold its meaning we use dead languages like Ancient Greek. The word that fits that definition is ‘sexism’.
    
    If you’re not going to fully read my replies to you, this is a complete waste of time.
    
    Patriarchy is a social system in which positions of authority are primarily held by men. The term patriarchy is used both in anthropology to describe a family or clan controlled by the father or eldest male or group of males, and in feminist theory to describe a broader social structure in which men as a group dominate society.[1][2][3]
    
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    OfCourseNot@fedia.io ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I read your comment fully and carefully. I ain't no troll, I'm really discussing in good faith and I think that my believes are not very far from yours. I'm saying that equating patriarchy with sexism is just wrong, and has the undesired effects I mention in my previous comment. On that line, also, I don't agree either with equating feminism with 'equality', because it is not, it is the fight to better women's lives, which is absolutely fine! I'm not an anti-feminist and I don't think any of that crap that it's women supremacy or whatever, but it definitely isn't trying to better men's position in the matters where they are at a disadvantage, and it doesn't have to, that's why it's called feminism.
    
    Feminist theorist, sociologists, or anthropologists trying to push these meanings, in a totally artificial way, is not helping feminism or equality, it's pushing people toward sexism and other quite bad -isms.
    
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