Correction: if not for the people who INVENTED Jesus.
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ivan@piefed.social 2 months ago
I blame Jesus. If not for him - we’d probably still be believing in sacred forests and shit.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Zombie@feddit.uk 2 months ago
Jesus, the person, existed as far as academic consensus is concerned.
Jesus, the son of God, on the other hand, only exists in the heads of the delusional.
The Christ myth theory, developed in 19th century scholarship and gaining popular attraction since the turn of the 20th century,[15][16][2] is the view that Jesus is purely a mythological figure[17] and that Christianity began with belief in such a figure.[18] Proponents use a three-fold argument developed in the 19th century: that the New Testament has no historical value with respect to Jesus’s existence, that there are no non-Christian references to Jesus from the first century, and that Christianity had pagan or mythical roots.[19][20] The idea that Jesus was a purely mythical figure has a fringe status in scholarly circles and has had no support in critical studies for more than a century, with most such theories going without recognition or serious engagement.[21][2][note 4]
David Gullotta states that modern interest in mythicism has been “amplified by internet conspiracy culture, pseudoscience, and media sensationalism”.[16]
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Jesus, the person, existed as far as academic consensus is concerned.
Yeah, the academic consensus of Christian theologians 🙄
the New Testament has no historical value with respect to Jesus’s existence
Obviously true.
there are no non-Christian references to Jesus from the first century
Or references to him form ANYONE who were alive at the same time he supposedly was, for that matter.
Christianity had pagan or mythical roots
Also factually accurate.
The idea that Jesus was a purely mythical figure has a fringe status in scholarly circles
Because guess what? The people who choose to dedicate their lives to studying theology or first century Palestine history tend to be people who believe in the myths. It’s inherent confirmation bias.
Next you’re going to tell me that it’s an undisputed fact that draconian punishment reduces crime rates, based on the testimony of cops and conservative demagogues 🙄
Zombie@feddit.uk 2 months ago
I recommend reading the Wikipedia page. It debunks your debunking quite thoroughly.
Christians aren’t the only people to have studied that time period.
Jesus was a man of near no economic means and no military power. The fact there’s even any historical references to him is a klaxon for his existence. I’m from an area of the world that has next to no written records for the entire peoples that lived here throughout several centuries of the early middle ages, and yet it’s not doubted they existed. It seems then pretty difficult to doubt the existence of a single man with which there’s so much written from an even earlier period.
If Jesus existed in modern times I’m sure there’d be conspiracies that the CIA is trying to wipe out the memory of the slave abolitionist and communist revolutionary. But because a cult of personality and religion got built around him for centuries, that is now one of the dominant philosophical and political powers in the world, the opposite view is taken. It’s all a conspiracy, maaaan!
Non-Christian sources used to study and establish the historicity of Jesus include the c. first century Jewish historian Josephus and Roman historian Tacitus. These sources are compared to Christian sources, such as the Pauline letters and synoptic gospels, and are usually independent of each other. Similarities and differences between these sources are used in the authentication process.[103][104][105][106] From these two independent sources alone, certain facts about Jesus can be adduced: that he existed, his personal name was Jesus, he was called a messiah, he had a brother named James, he won over Jews and gentiles, Jewish leaders had unfavorable opinions of him, Pontius Pilate decided his execution, he was executed by crucifixion, and he was executed during Pilate’s governorship.[107] Josephus and Tacitus agree on four sequential points: a movement was started by Jesus, he was executed by Pontius Pilate, his movement continued after his death, and that a group of “Christians” still existed; analogous to common knowledge of founders and their followers like Plato and Platonists.[108]
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Jesus, the person, existed as far as academic consensus is concerned
because can you imagine what would happen to academics if academia decided jesus didn’t exist.
asdasd201@lemmygrad.ml 2 months ago
Wasn’t Joshua (aka Jesus) a rabbi?
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
I think monotheistic messianic religions were kind of unavoidable seeing how in every part of the world they have been the most successful religions once societies become more complex and interconnected.
Tudsamfa@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Only if you define Buddhism as more successful than Hinduism and Confucianism, and define pre-Buddhism India and China as simple or isolated.
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Modern Hinduism precisely changed a lot to compete and stay relevant when other faiths starting to show up in India.
It became much less focused on the polytheism and much more focused on philosophy like Buddhism.
Their own polytheistic beliefs has been shaped to be more similar to the Christian trinity. And many gods are seen as part of one supreme God.
It’s just natural evolution of religions. In ancient times religions where about explaining natural phenomena. Thus we had the god of the sea, the god of the sun, the god of the rain, etc.
As those things got explained by science the gods needed to become more philosophical and vague.
Also societies got bigger. You used to have the god of your tribe, and rhe tribe next to you had another god, a d you fight one against the other. Then people lived in empires, with millions of people under an unique faith. To keep them all united a single good and a well structured religion is more useful.
Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Eh, it’s not as if the romans were too kind to the forests. So if you’re going back in time kill Caesar too before he genocides gaul of the protectors of the forest the Celts