Gachapon isn’t gambling, though I could see why one could be confused.
Gachapon (from which Gacha games get their name) is a Japanese word that essentially translates to “capsule toy.” It refers to the machine which you insert a coin and spin a knob, which causes the machine to drop a plastic (usually) capsule out of it. You know, like a gumball machine. Or those candy machines that were always full of banana hard candies near the exit at Ross or TJ Maxx.
With gachapon, you are paying for a capsule toy. You aren’t buying a specific capsule toy, you are buying a single capsule toy from the ones in the machine, and whichever one you get is random. However, you aren’t winning or losing, because you always “win the prize.” It might not be the one you want, but you always get what you pay for. Similar concept to blind-box toys.
With gambling, you spend money on a chance to win more money, usually. There is also a chance you win nothing and lose the money you spent. Gambling is when you spend money on something that can (and will often) give you nothing in return, which doesn’t happen with gachapon. With gachapon, you always “win,” but with gambling you very often lose. Gacha games always give you something valuable to the gameplay, even if you get duplicates of something you already have (makes the character more powerful, for example). Gambling often just takes your money and gives you absolutely nothing back except a sad, empty feeling.
Also, just don’t spend money if you don’t want to. It’s not hard. Nobody forces you to spend money on any game with a gun to your head (hopefully). Just have self-control, it’s easy. And if for some reason you don’t have self-control, work on it. Improve yourself.
Gacha games usually have enough free tickets built into it as rewards for playing the game that you can unlock almost everything you need to keep playing the game for free anyway. Just don’t expect to unlock everything in 3 hours.
Great comment except the last about telling to just have self control. The FOMO aspect that gacha and gambling rely on is a real problematic thing. These game exist specifically because they can tap into that.
Gachapon and gambling might prey on the same psychological tendencies humans have, but they are not the same thing, which is the point of my comment.
I fail to see why saying “If you lack self-control, work on improving yourself” is a bad thing to say, or somehow wrong. If you cannot exercise self-control, then you will not have a happy life. You will find yourself constantly broke from impulse spending on things you don’t need or that give you no return on value other than “I might miss it.” You do not need a gacha game for that, as there are plenty of other things in real life that can do the same thing that people here wouldn’t be downvoting or commenting on, for example:
attending a local farmer’s market
attending live musician performances
attending a live artist or author event
eating promotional food items at restaurants
attending hobby and art conventions
Everything has a time limit. Nothing exists for the span of eternity here, and thus everything has a chance to become, if it is not already, a time limited item or event that preys on FOMO for different personal interests. But if you have self-control, FOMO doesn’t have hardly any effect on you. Your do not HAVE to do X, or see Y, or buy Z. It is not a requirement of life. You aren’t going to ever be able to do, see, or buy everything you want. Its a fact of life. Self-control helps you realize this.
Saying no to yourself is powerful. You dont always have to say no, but self-control helps you to know when you should. And thus, it removes the power FOMO has over you. You stop caring about what other people think or say, and it gives you the power to stay financially responsible, and helps keep you mentally healthy.
Why is this bad? Even in the context of what I am talking about, if someone decides to play a gacha game, they should definitely have self-control. A person with no self-control will quickly find themselves peniless playing a gacha game, but they were probably going to be peniless eithout the gacha game too. Its not the fault of the game, it is the fault of the player.
Self control isn’t guaranteed for everyone. Your take here is pretty ableist.
You’d place blame on victims instead of abusers. Companies that have spent fortunes to make sure their systems go after easy targets. People who aren’t neurotypical, people who grew up with different cultures that didn’t prepare them for this or any of multiple other sources that would make them easier to take advantage of over and over.
I disagree that the reasoning you have makes gacha not gambling. It’s definitely still gambling if you ask me.
The crucial thing to note is that gacha and other loot box mechanics activate and exploits the exact same human psychological weaknesses as traditional gambling does. The point is to incite the player to keep playing “just one more time” because they might get that big win, that dopamine high fix.
That’s the underlying problem with gambling and the problem is the same for gacha and loot boxes. So I think it may as well be called gambling. But even if you don’t agree on using that term, hopefully you agree the the psychological effects are the same.
Also, just don’t spend money if you don’t want to. It’s not hard. Nobody forces you to spend money on any game with a gun to your head (hopefully). Just have self-control, it’s easy. And if for some reason you don’t have self-control, work on it. Improve yourself.
It’s not hard for you. But many people are wired in a way that makes it exceptionally hard for them to resist these kind of psychological dark patterns. These are innate characteristics, with some overlap with ADHD and other neurodiversity, not necessarily something one can “work on”. And there’s a reason why these dark patterns are in the games, because they work in extracting more money from players than they would otherwise give.
It might not be the one you want, but you always get what you pay for. Similar concept to blind-box toys.
With gachapon, you always “win,”
Disagree with the 2nd point here. If you are playing genshin or whatever, spend real life money on pulls to get a specific character and instead get something else, you have effectively lost. What you got is not what you spent your money for and possible not or barely valuable.
When you put your quarter into the gumball machine, you are buying a gumball. Not a specific color or flavor of gumball. It doesn’t matter which gumball machine you put the quarter into, whether it is full of red gumballs with a few green ones, or if it is full of gumballs of every color of the rainbow. You are getting exactly what you are paying for: a gumball from the machine. It doesnt matter if you put a quarter into the machine with mostly red gumballs hoping for a red or green gumball, you are buying a gumball from that machine, not a specific gumball.
Same idea with gacha games. I understand its not popular or liked, but that is how it is.
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Gachapon isn’t gambling, though I could see why one could be confused.
Gachapon (from which Gacha games get their name) is a Japanese word that essentially translates to “capsule toy.” It refers to the machine which you insert a coin and spin a knob, which causes the machine to drop a plastic (usually) capsule out of it. You know, like a gumball machine. Or those candy machines that were always full of banana hard candies near the exit at Ross or TJ Maxx.
With gachapon, you are paying for a capsule toy. You aren’t buying a specific capsule toy, you are buying a single capsule toy from the ones in the machine, and whichever one you get is random. However, you aren’t winning or losing, because you always “win the prize.” It might not be the one you want, but you always get what you pay for. Similar concept to blind-box toys.
With gambling, you spend money on a chance to win more money, usually. There is also a chance you win nothing and lose the money you spent. Gambling is when you spend money on something that can (and will often) give you nothing in return, which doesn’t happen with gachapon. With gachapon, you always “win,” but with gambling you very often lose. Gacha games always give you something valuable to the gameplay, even if you get duplicates of something you already have (makes the character more powerful, for example). Gambling often just takes your money and gives you absolutely nothing back except a sad, empty feeling.
Also, just don’t spend money if you don’t want to. It’s not hard. Nobody forces you to spend money on any game with a gun to your head (hopefully). Just have self-control, it’s easy. And if for some reason you don’t have self-control, work on it. Improve yourself.
Gacha games usually have enough free tickets built into it as rewards for playing the game that you can unlock almost everything you need to keep playing the game for free anyway. Just don’t expect to unlock everything in 3 hours.
oxideseven@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Great comment except the last about telling to just have self control. The FOMO aspect that gacha and gambling rely on is a real problematic thing. These game exist specifically because they can tap into that.
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Gachapon and gambling might prey on the same psychological tendencies humans have, but they are not the same thing, which is the point of my comment.
I fail to see why saying “If you lack self-control, work on improving yourself” is a bad thing to say, or somehow wrong. If you cannot exercise self-control, then you will not have a happy life. You will find yourself constantly broke from impulse spending on things you don’t need or that give you no return on value other than “I might miss it.” You do not need a gacha game for that, as there are plenty of other things in real life that can do the same thing that people here wouldn’t be downvoting or commenting on, for example:
Everything has a time limit. Nothing exists for the span of eternity here, and thus everything has a chance to become, if it is not already, a time limited item or event that preys on FOMO for different personal interests. But if you have self-control, FOMO doesn’t have hardly any effect on you. Your do not HAVE to do X, or see Y, or buy Z. It is not a requirement of life. You aren’t going to ever be able to do, see, or buy everything you want. Its a fact of life. Self-control helps you realize this.
Saying no to yourself is powerful. You dont always have to say no, but self-control helps you to know when you should. And thus, it removes the power FOMO has over you. You stop caring about what other people think or say, and it gives you the power to stay financially responsible, and helps keep you mentally healthy.
Why is this bad? Even in the context of what I am talking about, if someone decides to play a gacha game, they should definitely have self-control. A person with no self-control will quickly find themselves peniless playing a gacha game, but they were probably going to be peniless eithout the gacha game too. Its not the fault of the game, it is the fault of the player.
oxideseven@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Self control isn’t guaranteed for everyone. Your take here is pretty ableist.
You’d place blame on victims instead of abusers. Companies that have spent fortunes to make sure their systems go after easy targets. People who aren’t neurotypical, people who grew up with different cultures that didn’t prepare them for this or any of multiple other sources that would make them easier to take advantage of over and over.
SorteKanin@feddit.dk 2 months ago
I disagree that the reasoning you have makes gacha not gambling. It’s definitely still gambling if you ask me.
The crucial thing to note is that gacha and other loot box mechanics activate and exploits the exact same human psychological weaknesses as traditional gambling does. The point is to incite the player to keep playing “just one more time” because they might get that big win, that dopamine high fix.
That’s the underlying problem with gambling and the problem is the same for gacha and loot boxes. So I think it may as well be called gambling. But even if you don’t agree on using that term, hopefully you agree the the psychological effects are the same.
kazerniel@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It’s not hard for you. But many people are wired in a way that makes it exceptionally hard for them to resist these kind of psychological dark patterns. These are innate characteristics, with some overlap with ADHD and other neurodiversity, not necessarily something one can “work on”. And there’s a reason why these dark patterns are in the games, because they work in extracting more money from players than they would otherwise give.
Stephanie Sterling made a video a few years ago where they go into detail how modern games prey on vulnerable people: The Addictive Cost Of Predatory Videogame Monetization (The Jimquisition)
mrvictory1@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Disagree with the 2nd point here. If you are playing genshin or whatever, spend real life money on pulls to get a specific character and instead get something else, you have effectively lost. What you got is not what you spent your money for and possible not or barely valuable.
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 2 months ago
When you put your quarter into the gumball machine, you are buying a gumball. Not a specific color or flavor of gumball. It doesn’t matter which gumball machine you put the quarter into, whether it is full of red gumballs with a few green ones, or if it is full of gumballs of every color of the rainbow. You are getting exactly what you are paying for: a gumball from the machine. It doesnt matter if you put a quarter into the machine with mostly red gumballs hoping for a red or green gumball, you are buying a gumball from that machine, not a specific gumball.
Same idea with gacha games. I understand its not popular or liked, but that is how it is.