I suspect chicken and egg is reversed in a lot of comments like this. Did popularity fall because they increased monetization? Or did they increase monetization because popularity fell and live services are expensive beasts? Gotta say, I expect it’s the latter, especially since we know Bungie wasn’t doing so hot when Sony bought them.
SoupBrick@pawb.social 3 weeks ago
Thank goodness they didn’t over deliver.
ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
SoupBrick@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
All you have to do is look at Warframe. Bungie had metric tons more money to work with than DE did during their early life. Warframe is better than D2 in almost every way.
I think whoever was driving the core development decisions at Bungie was actively hindering the success of the game, whether intentionally or not.
ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think the difference in money between them is exactly it, but in how many developers it took to make and how many it still takes to continue to add to it. There is no chance that Warframe had the capex or opex of Destiny at any point in either game’s life.
And as much as people’s minds can be blown by the size of executive bonuses, I have yet to see reporting that ties it as a major contributing factor to why games became too expensive to make or maintain. That cost is mostly in just how many people those games employ to make them multiplied across how many years they’re working on it.
pory@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Both chicken and egg situations say the same thing: live service GAAS is unsustainable at best and garbage at worst
SoupBrick@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
I would recommend looking into the development history of Warframe. That, IMO, is the best example of GAAS that works for both the studio and the players.
pory@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Dark patterns are dark patterns, even if “the community” is more or less happy. Just means that it’s working. Being owned by Tencent actually does give them the freedom to “just be profitable” instead of squeezing each player for more and more revenue YOY, but the game still uses every retention mechanic in the book and leverages fake value by putting the MTX currency on “really good sales! Look how good the limited time deal is!!!” to keep people shelling out.
Tencent is diversified enough that they’ll probably never feel the need to tighten the screws on the Warframe studio directly.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
As opposed to what?
I don’t think a game like this is supposed to last, and be developed, forever.
SoupBrick@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
That’s cool, I enjoyed the game, but got frustrated with how shitty Bungie was with their refusal to learn from past mistakes. I wish this game lasted for much longer, but their pattern of repeating the same mistakes and releasing more mediocre DLCs than good ones drove me away.
Warframe has shown it is possible to exist for a long time, continuously drop quality content, and have a fantastic relationship and collaboration with their community.
Enshittification begins when the profits become a higher focus than the product.
NehpetsDoom@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Y’all ate slop so they slopped it up even more.
SoupBrick@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
God forbid a gamer enjoy playing a video game and hope a studio learns from their mistakes.
Rothe@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
It was created as a live-service game. It was never not a mtx fest.
SoupBrick@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
Correct, but as is the case with Warframe, which has so many more premium currency purchases you CAN make, it is possible to have a live service game and also make something fantastic that players can enjoy for decades.
binux@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Correct me if I’m being ignorant here but I don’t know if there’s ever been a single company that’s pulled itself out of degenerate business practices
SoupBrick@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
The two off the top of my head would be No Man’s Sky and R6 Seige.
No Man’s Sky: …substack.com/…/the-decade-long-journey-of-no-man…
Not sure how R6 is doing currently, but at one point they had a decent resurgence after they finally doubled down on improving the game.
These don’t match the exact scenario of Bungie, but they work as evidence that a studio CAN create something great out of something mediocre.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
What mistake? They made decisions that resulted in more money for then and learned that they could get away with it for years
SoupBrick@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
That mistake? You might want to take a look at recent Bungie news if you think that their mistakes didn’t cost them their fan base.
yermaw@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Destiny was the tits though. I didnt play much of 2 because life got in the way, but the core gameplay was satisfying and silky-smooth.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Some of the best PVP I’ve ever experienced, I still miss it