So what you’re saying is if Bob tells me (your name) has a flying tiger, and I later find out you don’t have a flying tiger… you no longer exists?
They did not say someone named Jesus did not exist.
There’s a difference between believing “Joe who had a tiger and a bear and an elephant”, and assuming that there might have been 3 different Joe’s, one with a tiger, one with a bear and one with an elephant, each of them in a different period. Saying “Joe with 3 animals did not exist” does not imply that those Joe’s did not exist.
I’m not a historian but what I’ve heard (must have been on Alex O’Connor’s podcast) is that even some of the possible historical Jesuses (or “Jesusi” :D) had things going on that were not compatible with what the biblical Jesus was all about. (Such as being cult leader proclaiming that world will end in few years.)
Aeao@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
He said Jesus is a fictional figure. He probably existed and yes there were more than one person with similar but that doesn’t change my argument.
If you say “this is Bob and he has a tiger” and I find out he does not have a tiger… he still exists as a person.
But you say “the stories about Bob don’t line up with any specific Bob”
Okay, that doesn’t stop Bob from being just because someone got a story wrong.
ImitationLimitation@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
Complete asinine argument.
Fictionalize any real person to the point absurdity, and you have a fictional non-existent person from a fairy tale. Saying a dude has a flying tiger is just lies. There is a difference. If you can’t see that, I’m cool with that. We’re all allowed to believe things.
Aeao@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Oh you’re the same guy. I don’t remember name calling bit if I did I’m sorry. I had probably started drinking and didn’t mean anything by it. Or something of the sorts. Might’ve caught me at a a bad time .
You’re allowed to be atheist and I’m allowed to be religious. Neither one of us are going to force anything down anyone throats? Then we’re both cool.
As for is Jesus real argument. We both seem to have different ideas of what exactly makes something “real”
In not going to try to convince you Noah’s ark is proven lol. From my view point Jesus past into the threshold of “close enough” you disagree, there’s evidence but you don’t believe it meets that threshold.
Agree to disagree. It’s a battle of semantics at this point.
Aeao@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I finished this argument 6 days ago. Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves.
WraithGear@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
now you are just talking about some different guy named bob.
mario is based on a person, but mario is a fictional character
Aeao@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Mario is based on a plumber. Do plumbers exist?
WraithGear@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
people exist, plumbers exist, people named mario exist, is there a plumber that can grow twice his size, shot fireballs using a flower, can jump four times his height unassisted, or fights a giant sentient reptile that breaths fire? no.
you can argue jesus was a man, but he is not the jesus of the bible.
netvor@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
plumbers exist, so do people named starting with M or J. so do people who walk around and yap about end of the world and/or resurrection. and even people who listen to them.
however…
plumbers that can jump 5 times their own height? people named with M that grow 2x when they eat a mushroom? people that turn water into wine? that’s a completely different story.
sentence like “Jesus did not exist” always need to be interpreted in context. when someone says it in context of religion or adjacent, and you respond by “but people called Jesus existed” then you’re just being obtuse.
or rather, playing Motte and Bailey: f…ing OF COURSE you can defend the that Bob—different one than in the story, in particular, a tigerless Bob—exists, but that’s not what is being disputed. what’s being disputed is the existence of Bob with the tiger, and the motivation is to challenge the whole story.